The Great Deception -> Fair Tax Act Of 2007– Hr 25/ S 102

Fair Tax Act Of 2007– Hr 25/ S 102 - Not So Fast, Is this to conform to the WTO? Or legit?

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jofortruth	Posted: Apr 23 2008, 11:04 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	The Less You See, The More You Pay: The Burden of Hidden Taxes http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=310 This article is talking about the hidden taxes Americans pay presently. While this may be true, it shouldn't be a reason to RUSH INTO THE FAIR TAX especially since this hasn't been brought up in 40+ years!

jofortruth	Posted: May 13 2008, 11:31 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	A Fair Tax Focus Group was held to supposedly see what the people wanted. On page 70 of the first Fair Tax book it states that they had a PROFESSIONAL FACILITATOR. So, now that we know what these facilitators actually do (see link below), do you think this was a TRULY HONEST INPUT FROM THE PEOPLE about the Fair Tax, or was it yet another manipulated forum? Is it really FAIR? or is this the typical manipulation of legislation with a POSITIVE NAME to deceive? I'm still reading the books, so will have more of an opinion later. --------------------------------------------------------------------- See topic on Provacateurs and use of Manipulative Facilitators to make the people think they have a say on issues: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=4630&st=0

jofortruth	Posted: May 13 2008, 06:47 PM
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jofortruth

Posted: May 15 2008, 07:45 PM

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They say a "Cashless Society" is in our future. The "Fair Tax" proponents are proposing a "Fairtax Card" for each head of household. See pg 89 of the first Fair Tax book which states the following:

QUOTE

The "FairTax Card" would be like your bank debit card, with a magnetic stripe identifying you and coded with your pin.

Once the cards are issued, it would take a simple mouse click in Washington for your FairTax Card to be credited with your monthly rebate payment. You then go forth into the retail marketplace using your FairTax Card until it's depleted for that month.

jofortruth

Posted: Jun 15 2008, 03:33 PM

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So what does "Revenue Neutral" Mean? (See pg 76 - 1st Fair Tax book)

QUOTE

In other words, the sales tax rate will be set to ensure that the federal government - and all the programs within it, including Social Security and Medicare - will receive from the national retail sales tax exactly what they had been receiving under the current tax system. This isn't about cutting spending or changing government benefits. It's simply a plan to change the way Americans fund their federal government.

IMO the Fair Tax should include something about "spending levels". Any good budget or financial plan always includes something about "spending". Enough of our taxpayer monies are sqaundered currently, do we really want to make it easier for the government to squander more?

The Fair Tax, to be FAIR, must include limitations on government SPENDING!

jofortruth	Posted: Dec 20 2009, 07:26 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Rep King Host Fair Tax Special Order: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6D78uG6-s...player_embedded I'm still not sure this is the answer, but we most obviously have a huge problem that started on Capitol Hill - SPENDING! I Need to do some more research on the Fair Tax. However, with all of the crazy things the Obama admin is proposing (and no way to fund them), you can bet they are discussing some massive tax schemes (ie. carbon tax, sales tax, VAT tax, etc etc). The American people are going to be pummeled with more taxes on top of losing their homes, jobs and freedom! This is disgusting! If this government would stop the ludicrous and excessive spending, and stop the wars and looting of our US Treasury by the bankers, we would have the money we need. But NO, they aren't that reasonable or honest or responsible enough to tackle the real problems. They prefer to make up new problems, so they can loot us even more and justify whatever new tax they propose and implement!

jofortruth

Posted: Sep 19 2011, 08:52 PM

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UPDATED VERSION OF FAIR TAX BILL PRESENTLY IN CONGRESS:
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr25...S-112hr25ih.pdf

QUOTE

To promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

QUESTION: JUST HOW MANY OF THESE COSPONSORS REALLY UNDERSTAND THIS BILL? I WOULD VENTURE TO GUESS THAT MOST HAVEN'T A CLUE, BUT ARE JUST GOING ALONG TO GET ALONG AS IS THE MODUS OPERANDI IN CONGRESS. IF THESE GUYS ARE YOUR CONGRESSMEN, THEY SHOULD BE ASKED THIS QUESTION!

I like the above, but need more info. Does it deal with spending, is the question? This is one reasons why Ron Paul has not signed as a cosponsor! I also think this could be a real cash cow for congress! If they have no balanced budget, nor spending restraints this could be another problem!

To repeal the 16th Amendment would require a constitutional amendment. That takes quite the process!

Still skeptical!

QUOTE

This updated version of the bill adds the following:

TITLE IV—SUNSET OF SALES TAX IF SIXTEENTH AMENDMENT NOT REPEALED

Sec. 401. Elimination of sales tax if Sixteenth Amendment not repealed.

jofortruth

Posted: Sep 19 2011, 10:44 PM

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Another opinion on the Fair Tax:
http://mises.org/daily/1814

QUOTE

Every small service business and every Internet business that does not currently collect state sales taxes will have to collect taxes for the federal government. Every doctor will now have to charge sales tax on his services.

Where will this end? Will the neighborhood boy who mows lawns have to begin collecting federal sales tax on each lawn mowed? Will the neighborhood girl who baby sits have to do likewise?

Some good questions! There is already talk of regulating babysitters and giving them breaks after so many hours on the job! Also have you noticed taxes popping up on the internet? Egg sellers and raw milk sellers are being harassed! I'd allowed to stay in business they could be required to collect taxes! This could be a nightmare if everyone is required to collect taxes!

Also, this will be so simple that Congress could raise the tax easily anytime they wanted to! We don't even trust these guys now, so to make this easy for them could be a nightmare! This point requires some spending restraints to control the uncontrollable Congress. Most of those guys have no common sense when it comes to finance in particular. Look at the mess they have currently allowed to happen!

Also, the federal reserve needs to be shut down as part of the deal. They have been the monsters of our financial crisis, and should not be allowed to have anything to do with any new system that emerges! They should be investigated for many things, but in particular their role in the derivative scam and housing implosion! Accountability needs to come to the arrogant fed! Long overdue!

Many questions, not many answers!

jofortruth

Posted: Sep 28 2011, 06:37 PM

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Listen to Alex Jones Show 9-28-11 (3rd Hour) Fair Tax (Starting Time 39:54)
http://podcast.gcnlive.com/podcast/alex/pcast.php
http://www.gcnlive.com/programs/alexJones/archives.php

QUOTE

He was told 15 years ago the Fair Tax is yet another scam that all the big boyz want, including the Republicans, Democrats and THE FEDERAL RESERVE.

AJ says they plan to:

1) Keep the INCOME TAX (which IMO they should get rid of if they want their Fair tax),

2) The Fair Tax is being promoted by FOUNDATIONS (here we go again, fdns are always involved),

3) They are going to rename the INCOME TAX saying it's only for Social Security (say 10% or so), and

4) THEN, IN ADDITION, THEY PLAN TO ADD A VAT TAX & A SALES TAX.

IF THIS IS TRUE. THIS IS JUST MORE DECEIT JUST LIKE THE FEDERAL RESERVE WAS 100+ YEARS AGO. THESE PEOPLE ARE MAD!

jofortruth	Posted: Sep 28 2011, 06:45 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	IF THEY DON'T GET RID OF THE INCOME TAX, THE IRS AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THEN THEY SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO GET THEIR FAIR TAX BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE NOTHING FAIR ABOUT IT! Just like THE PATRIOT ACT was named something that it wasn't. I'm beginning to think the FAIR TAX is going to be the same scam; nothing fair about it.

jofortruth	Posted: Sep 29 2011, 02:46 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Herman Cain is a Supporter of the Fair Tax: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JywZWcDUKOs&feature=related

jofortruth	Posted: Sep 29 2011, 02:48 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	REMEMBER: There is bipartisan support in Congress for the Fair Tax. Also, the Federal Reserve supports it, which makes me suspicious. When do all of these boyz publicly support something, and it be a good thing? THIS SUBJECT NEEDS CLOSE SCRUTINY BY EVERYONE. DON'T JUST JUMP INTO SUPPORTING THIS. THEY LOVE TO INTRODUCE NEW IDEAS IN THE MIDDLE OF A CRISIS, SO YOU JUST GO ALONG WITH IT! THINK AND DO RESEARCH. ASK YOUR CONGRESSMEN HARD QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS. GO TO THE SOURCE THAT KNOWS THE MOST ON THIS TOPIC - GEORGIA CONGRESSMAN ROB WOODALL. HIS PREDECESSOR WAS JOHN LINDER WHO WAS MAJORLY INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THIS LEGISLATION. (Woodall was one of his aides for many years, so is now the new point man since Linder retired). THIS BILL HAS BEEN DEVELOPING AND IN THE WINGS FOR OVER 15 YEARS. SO MY QUESTION IS, WHY DO THEY WAIT UNTIL A CRISIS TO START REALLY PUSHING IT? IT'S THE SAME OLD ELITE TRICK, IMO! THEY DO MOST OF THEIR BIG CHANGES DURING A CRISIS, WHEN THE PEOPLE ARE DISTRACTED! THEY ALSO COUNT ON YOU NOT DOING YOUR HOMEWORK TO LOOK INTO THESE PIECES OF LEGISLATION. THIS WOULD BE A MAJOR CHANGE, AND YOU MUST GET EDUCATED ON THE SUBJECT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!

jofortruth	Posted: Sep 29 2011, 02:55 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Georgia Congressman Rob Woodall (& CoSponsors) Recent Letter to the Ways and Means Committee: http://woodall.house.gov/sites/woodall.hou...0to%20W%26M.pdf http://woodall.house.gov/ http://woodall.house.gov/issue/fairtax HERE COMES THE BIG PUSH FOR THE FAIR TAX (besides in the GOP Debates)! NOTE THE URGENCY STATED IN THIS LETTER "Our Dire Fiscal Situation". ONCE AGAIN CRISES ARE USED BY GOVERNMENT TO BRING IN MAJOR CHANGES. DO YOU REMEMBER THE PATRIOT ACT IMMEDIATELY AFTER 911? ON AND ON IT GOES! THE ONLY QUESTION IS THIS: IS IT FAIR? I'M NOT CONVINCED YET, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE FEDERAL RESERVE IS SAYING THEY SUPPORT THIS. NOW IF THEY WOULD GET RID OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE, THEN I WOULD SAY GREAT, LETS DO IT!

jofortruth

Posted: Sep 29 2011, 03:19 PM

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House Ways and Means Committee Hearing on the Fair Tax - July 26, 2011: (Notice this hearing was on the Fair Tax and the VAT tax)
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/News/Documen...cumentID=252675

Testimony: (Proponents) (Only 3 brought to hearing?)(Video of hearing at the bottom)
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/Calendar/Eve...?EventID=252676
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFile...__Testimony.pdf
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFile...e_Testimony.pdf

An Opponent:
http://waysandmeans.house.gov/UploadedFile...t_Testimony.pdf

QUOTE

"This brings me to my core disagreement with the FairTax. I just don't think it will work. It is the most pie-in-the-sky major tax reform I have ever heard of. Even by tax policy standards, it is grossly complex, a virtual Rube Goldberg contraption of pieces that are unworkable individually and become exponentially more unworkable as they are layered on top of each other. The idea that this is a simple form of taxation is nonsense." - Bruce Bartlett

jofortruth

Posted: Sep 29 2011, 10:44 PM

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Ron Paul's Position:
http://weblog.larrydburton.com/2006/09/26/...and-the-fairtax

QUOTE

Thank you for contacting my office regarding the FAIR TAX. I agree with you that

massive tax reform is needed in this country. More specifically, I agree with the

provisions of the FAIR TAX which repeal income, payroll, and estate taxes.

As you may know, it's not easy for me to advocate any new tax! However, I

certainly think a sales tax is better than an income tax- PROVIDED the income tax

is truly eliminated. I would hate to see America end up with both a national sales

tax and an income tax, much like socialist European countries.

However, the real key to tax reform is dramatically reduced spending by the

federal government. Until the government spends far less, taxes (in whatever

form) will remain too high. While I certainly support eliminating the income tax, I

do not want to see it replaced with a high national sales tax which attempts to

collect the same amount of revenue. Spending is the real problem.

Please understand that we share wide areas of agreement on tax issues. I will

continue to consider the Americans for Fair Taxation plan. Proponents of real tax

reform (whether they support a national sales tax, flat tax, or other plan) must

unite in their efforts to eliminate the present unworkable income tax structure.

Sincerely,

Ron Paul

jofortruth	Posted: Oct 13 2011, 06:19 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Flat Tax vs. Fair Tax: http://www.pafairtax.org/resrcs/FlatTaxFairTaxComparison.pdf The third side of this debate, rarely mentioned is: WHY DO WE NEED A TAX AT ALL? The majority is used to pay interest to the Federal Reserve who is privately owned and makes money out of thin air! Read the Grace Commission Report: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...9747&st=0&#last Income Tax: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=9745&st=0

jofortruth	Posted: Jun 1 2012, 07:56 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,418 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	"Rebutting the unFair Tax" http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...showtopic=10395

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