The Great Deception -> * Clergy Response Teams? Dhs

* Clergy Response Teams? Dhs - Romans 13, Churches are being neutered by NWO

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jofortruth

Posted: Aug 21 2007, 09:33 AM

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Feds Train Clergy To "Quell Dissent" During Martial Law - Why are some Pastors so gullible? Have they no DISCERNMENT? This is OUTRAGEOUS!
http://www.ksla.com/global/story.asp?s=693...tType=Printable
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/augus...ell_dissent.htm

QUOTE

KSLA News 12 Shreveport, Louisiana |Homeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever DeclaredSHREVEPORT, LA
Homeland Security Enlists Clergy to Quell Public Unrest if Martial Law Ever Declared

Could martial law ever become a reality in America?� Some fear any nuclear, biological or chemical attack on U.S. soil might trigger just that.� KSLA News 12 has discovered that the clergy would help the government with potentially their biggest problem: Us.

Charleton Heston's now-famous speech before the National Rifle Association at a convention back in 2000 will forever be remembered as a stirring moment for all 2nd Amendment advocates.� At the end of his remarks, Heston held up his antique rifle and told the crowd in his Moses-like voice, "over my cold, dead hands."

While Heston, then serving as the NRA President, made those remarks in response to calls for more gun control laws at the time, those words live on.� Heston's declaration captured a truly American value:� An over-arching desire to protect our freedoms.

But gun confiscation is exactly what happened during the state of emergency following Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans, along with forced relocation.� U.S. Troops also arrived, something far easier to do now, thanks to last year's elimination of the 1878 Posse Comitatus act, which had forbid regular U.S. Army troops from policing on American soil.

If martial law were enacted here at home, like depicted in the movie "The Siege", easing public fears and quelling dissent would be critical.� And that's exactly what the 'Clergy Response Team' helped accomplish in the wake of Katrina.

Dr. Durell Tuberville serves as chaplain for the Shreveport Fire Department and the Caddo Sheriff's Office.� Tuberville said of the clergy team's mission, "the primary thing that we say to anybody is, 'let's cooperate and get this thing over with and then we'll settle the differences once the crisis is over.'"

Such clergy response teams would walk a tight-rope during martial law between the demands of the government on the one side, versus the wishes of the public on the other.� "In a lot of cases, these clergy would already be known in the neighborhoods in which they're helping to diffuse that situation," assured Sandy Davis.� He serves as the director of the Caddo-Bossier Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness.

For the clergy team, one of the biggest tools that they will have in helping calm the public down or to obey the law is the bible itself, specifically Romans 13.� Dr. Tuberville elaborated, "because the government's established by the Lord, you know.� And, that's what we believe in the Christian faith.� That's what's stated in the scripture."

Civil rights advocates believe the amount of public cooperation during such a time of unrest may ultimately depend on how long they expect a suspension of rights might last.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamefRxFZ4A

UNREAL!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

What does Romans 13 Really Mean? Being Taken Out of Context

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/Interview_Dixon.html
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/Int_Dixon.mp3

THIS IS HOW THEY INTEND TO DEAL WITH US WHEN THEY CALL FOR MARSHALL LAW. IF YOU LET YOUR PASTOR TELL YOU THIS - HE/SHE IS A LIAR. NOTHING IN THE BIBLE TELLS US WE ARE TO GIVE UP OUR GUNS TO A ROGUE ADMINISTRATION. MAN IS NOT GOD, EVEN THOUGH SOME THINK THEY ARE. THIS IS A LIE AND IS DECEIVING MANY OTHERWISE GOOD PEOPLE.

PLEASE USE SOME COMMON SENSE ON THIS MATTER BECAUSE PASTORS ALL OVER AMERICA HAVE BEEN TOLD BY DHS TO HELP WITH GUN COLLECTION WHEN MARSHALL LAW IS CALLED FOR. PLEASE ASK YOUR PASTOR NOW ABOUT THIS, AND IF HE IS NOT ADAMANTLY AGAINST THIS ACTION - THEN RUN FOR THE HILLS AND TELL YOUR OTHER FRIENDS.

If you get your religious instruction from DR. TUBERVILLE - HE IS ONE ADVOCATING CHRISTIANS ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE UP THEIR GUNS DUE TO HIS WRONG INTERPRETATION OF ROMANS 13 - BE WARNED THAT HE IS WRONG AND DOING THE BIDDING OF A ROGUE ADMINISTRATION.

jofortruth	Posted: Aug 21 2007, 09:44 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Why are Christians so Gullible? http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin388.htm America's Pastors: Preachers of Truth or Promoters of Tyranny? http://www.newswithviews.com/baldwin/baldwin392.htm

jofortruth	Posted: Aug 21 2007, 09:49 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Government IS NOT GOD. ONLY GOD IS GOD. NO MAN, AND ESPECIALLY ANY IN THIS ROGUE ADMINISTRATION, IS GOD. EVEN THOUGH SOME THINK THEY ARE. Read Ecclesiastes 5:8; Don't just stop at one verse which these guys are taking out of context to deceive you. "If though see the oppression of the poor and violent perverting of judgement and justice in a province, marvel not at the matter for he that is higher than the highest regardeth. And there be higher than even they." The US is NOT A MONARACHY. We are a Constitutional Republic. We MUST hold our government accountable, and it has NEVER BEEN SO IMPERATIVE to understand that our GOD IS NOT THIS GOVERNMENT - ESPECIALLY NOT THIS ROGUE GOVERNMENT. PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY AND GET YOUR MIND RIGHT BECAUSE THE WAY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS ACTING IT IS HEADED TOWARDS MARSHALL LAW. THE SEEDS HAVE BEEN LAID THROUGH ALL OF THIS FEARMONGERING LEGISLATION AND EXE. ORDERS THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED. WAKEUP PEOPLE! IF YOU ARE A FUNDAMENTALIST PERSON, IT'S TIME TO ASK YOUR PASTOR WHAT HE HAS DECIDED TO DO WITH THIS DHS MANDATE GIVEN TO HIM. IF HE WOULD SUBMIT TO THIS LUNACY, THEN YOU NEED TO TELL HIM YOU WILL NOT AND HE IS WRONG. PERIOD! THIS ISSUE WILL SHOW YOUR PASTORS TRUE COLORS. ANY PASTOR WHO WOULD GO ALONG WITH THIS DOESN'T KNOW HIS SCRIPTURES AND IS A DECEIVER. IT'S TIME TO FIND OUT NOW PEOPLE. DON'T WAIT UNTIL THIS HAPPENS!

jofortruth	Posted: Aug 21 2007, 10:10 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	A reality check on George W. Bush http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=2025&st=0 ANYONE WHO WOULD EVEN BEGIN TO THINK THAT THEY SHOULD FOLLOW THIS MAN (THE GOVERNMENT) IS AS MISGUIDED AS BUSH IS HIMSELF. THE DAY OF RECKONING IS COMING, WILL YOU SUBMIT TO THE MOST EVIL PRESIDENT/GOVERNMENT/DHS THIS NATION HAS EVER SEEN, OR WILL YOU FOLLOW THE CORRECT PRINCIPALS OF THE BIBLE? THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME. (THIS INCLUDES THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND ANY HUMAN AUTHORITY. THE ONLY AUTHORITY YOU'RE ACCOUNTABLE TO IS GOD.)

jofortruth	Posted: Aug 21 2007, 09:41 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	http://www.blacklistednews.com/view.asp?ID=4049 I GUESS OUR CHURCHES NO LONGER HAVE TRUE PASTORS ANYMORE, THEY ARE INTO POLITICS, BUDDIES WITH THE ZIONISTS, AND DOING THE BIDDING OF DEPT OF HOMELAND SECURITY AND THE NWO. UNREAL!

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 22 2008, 01:59 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Pastors Prep for Martial Law WHAT THEY'RE NOT PREPPING IN IS HOW OUR FREEDOMS WILL BE UNDERMINED IF THEY PARTICIPATE IN THIS SHAM SET UP BY HOMELAND SECURITY. I THINK JOEL OLSTEEN (AND ALL OF HIS MEGA-CHURCH FRIENDS) NEEDS TO TAKE A CLASS ON THE CONSTITUTION, ON WHAT FREEDOM REALLY IS, AND WHAT A REPUBLIC IS. HE SEEMS TOTALLY IGNORANT ON ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE HISTORY OF THIS NATION.

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 22 2008, 02:04 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	The Correct Interpreation of Romans 13: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...?showtopic=2027

jofortruth

Posted: Jun 21 2008, 09:57 AM

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http://books.google.com/books?id=ssSHokISM...esult#PPA149,M1

QUOTE

In the days of President John Adams there was a Reverend Jonathan Mayhew. When the Stamp Act was being perpetrated on the people he came out and opposed it. He claimed that Romans 13 gave the people the right of a "Just Insurrection" because this act was depriving the people of their rights:

1) Right to be taxed by consent.

2) Right to jury by trial before their peers.

Learn Out Loud - US Presidents Podcasts - John Adams:
http://www.learnoutloud.com/Podcast-Direct...s-Podcast/24803

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 2 2009, 07:15 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Church Organization Refuses To Divulge, If Pastors Are On FEMA Payroll http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=6131&st=0

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 6 2009, 10:04 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	CHRIS PINTO ON RADIO LIBERTY WITH STAN MONTEITH: THE EYE OF THE PHOENIX - PART 6 OF 6 Pinto has a Series of Videos: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...?showtopic=6258

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 18 2009, 07:25 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	26,000 Pastors For Martial Law Continuity Of Govt, DeFazio Says Congress not allowed to see http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...opic=4537&st=0&

jofortruth

Posted: Mar 4 2009, 11:27 PM

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Church Document Encourages Congregation To Obey Government
http://www.prisonplanet.com/church-documen...government.html
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/March20...309document.pdf

QUOTE

The document cites Romans 13 verses 1-4 and claims that the following �paraphrases� can be interpreted from the bible.

- Barack Obama�s presidency is appointed by God. (v 1)

- Christians should lead the way in supporting Barack Obama�s presidency. (v 2)

- Barack Obama�s presidency can be a force for good and a deterrent against evil. (v 3)

- As president, Barack Obama is God�s minister to you for good. (v 4)

This is pure deception people. If you're in this church or ANY CHURCH that is telling you this, then you're being lied to. GOD would never want you to submit yourself to EVIL. EVIL IS WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THIS NATION. THE PERPETRATORS ARE AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE US GOVERNMENT!

YOU SHOULD BE SEEING RED FLAGS WHEN YOUR PASTOR/PREACHER/WHOMEVER TELLS YOU STUFF LIKE THIS. WHERE IS YOUR DISCERNMENT??

DON'T BE STUPID PEOPLE! YOU MUST COME TO YOUR SENSES. YOU ARE TOTALLY BEING DECEIVED BY THE VERY PEOPLE YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRUST. THERE IS NO EXCUSE!

jofortruth	Posted: Apr 23 2009, 11:22 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=6131&st=0 Have you asked your Pastor if he's a member of the Clergy Response Team of DHS?

jofortruth

Posted: Apr 29 2009, 10:19 AM

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http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=22417

QUOTE

Rethinking Romans 13
April 14, 2001

By Greg A. Dixon
WorldNetDaily.com

In recent years, Christians have interpreted Romans 13 as a command for unlimited submission to government by God. Many proponents of this belief have sat passively by, in the soft pews of their place of worship, while evil has triumphed in most areas of family and church life. In our pacifistic smugness, many have allowed government to become god without even knowing.

Yet, when confronted with the true meaning of Romans 13, absurd accusations are shouted in religious rhetoric toward those who would dare to break an unjust law or even to question the almighty government. The opponents of unlimited submission to government are deemed as rebellious, anarchist and disobedient. However, there is no practical, historical or biblical consistency in the shallow agreements of these simpletons.

First, unlimited submission to government is not practical. For a philosophy to be a valid philosophy, it must be consistent. As a result, it does not make practical sense to blindly obey a tyrant like Adolph Hitler or deem a law such as abortion-on-demand a legitimate law just because one's government says it is public policy. However, if Romans 13 teaches unlimited submission to government, then we must obey and acknowledge all laws, good and bad, as the will of God. If all governments are of God, then all laws are of God. This in not practical from any point of view.

Second, it is not historical. Our founding fathers recognized and understood tyranny and despotism. They perceived the ultimate end of the king's actions. Thus, they besought George III to relent in his persecutions and implored him to uphold his covenant agreement.

In July of 1774, our forefathers met in Fairfax County, Va., and considered ways of forcing Great Britain to redress American grievances. George Washington and George Mason were the instrumental agents in drafting what has come to be known as the "Fairfax Resolves."

Ponder for a moment Resolves five and six:

"Resolved that the claim lately assumed and exercised by the British Parliament, of making all such Laws as they think fit, to govern the people of these colonies, contrary to the first Principles of the Constitution, and the original Compacts by which we are dependent upon the British Crown and Government; but is totally incompatible with the privileges of a free people, and the natural Rights of Mankind; will render our own Legislatures merely nominal and nugatory, and is calculated to reduce us from a state of freedom and happiness to slavery and misery."

"Resolved that Taxation and Representation are in their nature inseparable; that the right of withholding, or of giving and granting their own money is the only effectual security to a free people, against the encroachments of Despotism and Tyranny; and that whenever they yield to one they fall prey to the other."

All of the Resolves are loaded with bullets that explode against a tyrannical and despotic government. The "shot that was heard around the world on Lexington green was loaded in the "Fairfax Resolves." How can one make that statement? After pleading with George III to uphold his covenant agreement and after seeking for a redress of grievances, the "coup de grace" is plainly stated in the 23rd Resolve:

"Resolved that it be recommended to the Deputies of the general Congress to draw up and transmit an humble and dutiful petition and remonstrance to his Majesty, asserting with decent firmness our just and constitutional Rights and Privileges, lamenting the fatal necessity of being compelled to enter into measures disgusting to his Majesty and his Parliament, or injurious to our fellow subjects in Great Britain; declaring the strongest terms of duty and affection to his Majesty's person, family and government, and our desire to continue our dependence upon Great Britain; and must humbly beseeching his Majesty, not to reduce his faithful subjects of America to a state of desperation, and to reflect, that from our Sovereign there can be but one appeal."

In simple terms, the Resolves offered George III two obvious choices. One was to fulfill his covenant obligations and be the king and ruler to the American Colonies that he had agreed to be or, second, to prepare for war. George III was asked to reflect upon the fact, that if he did not keep his end of the covenant, there could "be but one appeal."

Last --and most important -- it is not biblical. Daniel disobeyed Darius and went to the lions den. The three Hebrew children broke the law for not bowing. The parents hid baby Moses from Pharaoh. Rahab lied to protect the Hebrew spies. The Apostles went to prison for preaching Christ in the authority of Heaven. Paul and his followers in Acts 17 did contrary to all the decrees of Caesar in order to make Jesus the King. Even Jesus lived in direct opposition of the political religious leaders of his day and went to the cross for us.

Romans 13 is a treatise by Paul and the Apostles on the institution of model government. As we rightly divide the word of truth and take this passage in its total context, we will discover seven truths:

Good government is ordained by God.

Government officials are to be good ministers who represent God.

We the people must obey good and godly laws.

As we relate Romans 13 to America, our Constitution is the higher power -- not the IRS tax code.

Good government is not to be feared.

In America, we are to pay honor and custom and constitutional taxes to whom it is due.

Government is to protect the righteous and punish the wicked.

As a result, we have a practical, historical and biblical mandate to fervently disobey any unconstitutional laws and all government officials who cease to be good ministers of Jesus Christ. God almighty is the only power that deserves unlimited obedience.

Greg A. Dixon is the senior pastor of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple and has written several columns about the plight of his congregation.

When your leaders are honest, have integrity, and do what is right, then you can follow their leadership (they are true leaders), but when they become corrupt, infiltrated, down right WRONG, and start acting against your good, then you should have no allegiance to them, and you should question them and stop what they're doing.

This is the STAGE we're at, folks! We have a government that has been hijacked by the NWO GLOBALISTS BANKERS AND BUDDIES and they are destroying our Country (unfortunately with the help of some paid off Congressmen and high people in our govt). If you has a pastor or religious leader telling you this is GOD'S WILL and to STAND DOWN, THEN YOU ARE BEING SERIOUSLY LIED TO AND DECEIVED. YOU NEED TO START QUESTIONING THINGS, AND NOW.

IF YOU DON'T START TAKING A STAND, ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THINGS AND GET OUT OF YOUR FOG, YOUR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS WILL NOT GROW UP IN A FREE COUNTRY LIKE YOU ONCE DID! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT? IF NOT, THEN START GETTING INFORMED AND STOP ALLOWING YOURSELF TO BE DECEIVED!

jofortruth	Posted: Apr 29 2009, 10:34 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	More on Romans 13: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...topic=6578&st=0

jofortruth	Posted: Apr 29 2009, 10:35 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Why are we talking about Romans 13? Because FEMA has hired many Pastors and telling them to tell their flocks this passage means they must submit to govt regardless of what it does. THIS IS NOT ONLY A LIE, IT IS MAJOR DECEPTION: http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Decep...opic=2037&st=0&

jofortruth

Posted: May 8 2009, 11:42 AM

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Greek Interpretation as given by someone from Greece:
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?to...cseen#msg628586

QUOTE

I could turn this into an article but why bore you? I am a Greek speaking American. My wife was raised in Greece and spent 17 years there. So we decided, let's look up Romans 13:

NIV translation:� Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

1Every (A)person is to be in (B)subjection to the governing authorities For �there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

Greek Version (1550 AD)

�� 13
1��

Translation (WORD FOR WORD)

Every single soul of ruling, dominating (or) submissive, they do not have substance of ruling if they are not from God and under God.

English Translation:

Every governing soul including those in highest command or lowest command have no authority if they are NOT ruling as fair and just as God.

There ya go. It's a statement for revolution. NOT submission to government!! This is according to the GREEK text, which is the ORIGINAL TEXT!

jofortruth	Posted: May 8 2009, 10:29 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	IF YOUR PASTOR, WHOEVER, IS TELLING YOU THIS, YOU ARE BEING DECEIVED! Attached Image (Click thumbnail to expand)

jofortruth

Posted: Jul 15 2009, 05:18 PM

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Romans Chapter 13 Revisited (It seems people still don't understand this. The silence in the "Christian community" is deafening. Why are you not awake? Do you not care what happens to your Country?)
http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2009/cbar...e_20090715.html

QUOTE

Romans Chapter 13 Revisited
by Chuck Baldwin
July 15, 2009

It seems that every time someone such as myself attempts to encourage our Christian brothers and sisters to resist an unconstitutional or otherwise reprehensible government policy, we hear the retort, "What about Romans Chapter 13? We Christians must submit to government. Any government. Read your Bible, and leave me alone." Or words to that effect.

No doubt, some who use this argument are sincere. They are only repeating what they have heard their pastor and other religious leaders say. On the other hand, let's be honest enough to admit that some who use this argument are just plain lazy, apathetic, and indifferent. And Romans 13 is their escape from responsibility. I suspect this is the much larger group, by the way.

Nevertheless, for the benefit of those who are sincere (but obviously misinformed), let's briefly examine Romans Chapter 13. I quote Romans Chapter 13, verses 1 through 7, from the Authorized King James text:

"Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

Do our Christian friends who use these verses to teach that we should not oppose America's political leaders really believe that civil magistrates have unlimited authority to do anything they want without opposition? I doubt whether they truly believe that.

For example, what if our President decided to resurrect the old monarchal custom of Jus Primae Noctis (Law of First Night)? That was the old medieval custom when the king claimed the right to sleep with a subject's bride on the first night of their marriage. Would our sincere Christian brethren sheepishly say, "Romans Chapter 13 says we must submit to the government"? I think not. And would any of us respect any man who would submit to such a law?

So, there are limits to authority. A father has authority in his home, but does this give him power to abuse his wife and children? Of course not. An employer has authority on the job, but does this give him power to control the private lives of his employees? No. A pastor has overseer authority in the church, but does this give him power to tell employers in his church how to run their businesses? Of course not. All human authority is limited in nature. No man has unlimited authority over the lives of other men. (Lordship and Sovereignty is the exclusive domain of Jesus Christ.)

By the same token, a civil magistrate has authority in civil matters, but his authority is limited and defined. Observe that Romans Chapter 13 clearly limits the authority of civil government by strictly defining its purpose: "For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil . . . For he is the minister of God to thee for good . . . for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

Notice that civil government must not be a "terror to good works." It has no power or authority to terrorize good works or good people. God never gave it that authority. And any government that oversteps that divine boundary has no divine authority or protection. This is a basic principle of Natural Law (and all of America's legal documents--including the U.S. Constitution--are founded upon the God-ordained principles of Natural Law).

The apostle clearly states that civil government is a "minister of God to thee for good." It is a not a minister of God for evil. Civil magistrates have a divine duty to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." They have no authority to execute wrath upon him that doeth good. None. Zilch. Zero. And anyone who says they do is lying. So, even in the midst of telling Christians to submit to civil authority, Romans Chapter 13 limits the power and reach of civil authority.

Did Moses violate God's principle of submission to authority when he killed the Egyptian taskmaster in defense of his fellow Hebrew? Did Elijah violate God's principle of submission to authority when he openly challenged Ahab and Jezebel? Did David violate God's principle of submission to authority when he refused to surrender to Saul's troops? Did Daniel violate God's principle of submission to authority when he disobeyed the king's command to not pray audibly to God? Did the three Hebrew children violate God's principle of submission to authority when they refused to bow to the image of the state? Did John the Baptist violate God's principle of submission to authority when he publicly scolded King Herod for his infidelity? Did Simon Peter and the other Apostles violate God's principle of submission to authority when they refused to stop preaching on the streets of Jerusalem? Did Paul violate God's principle of submission to authority when he refused to obey those authorities who demanded that he abandon his missionary work? In fact, Paul spent almost as much time in jail as he did out of jail.

Remember that every apostle of Christ (except John) was killed by hostile civil authorities opposed to their endeavors. Christians throughout church history were imprisoned, tortured, or killed by civil authorities of all stripes for refusing to submit to their various laws and prohibitions. Did all of these Christian martyrs violate God's principle of submission to authority?

So, even the great prophets, apostles, and writers of the Bible (including the writer of Romans Chapter 13) understood that human authority--even civil authority--is limited.

Plus, Paul makes it clear that our submission to civil authority must be predicated on more than fear of governmental retaliation. Notice, he said, "Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake." Meaning, our obedience to civil authority is more than just "because they said so." It is also a matter of conscience. This means we must think and reason for ourselves regarding the justness and rightness of our government's laws. Obedience is not automatic or robotic. It is a result of both rational deliberation and moral approbation.

Therefore, there are times when civil authority may need to be resisted. Either governmental abuse of power or the violation of conscience (or both) could precipitate civil disobedience. Of course, how and when we decide to resist civil authority is an entirely separate issue. And I will reserve that discussion for another time.

Beyond that, we in the United States of America do not live under a monarchy. We have no king. There is no single governing official in this country. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with any man or any group of men. America's "supreme Law" does not rest with the President, the Congress, or even the Supreme Court. In America, the U.S. Constitution is the "supreme Law of the Land." Under our laws, every governing official publicly promises to submit to the Constitution of the United States. Do readers understand the significance of this distinction? I hope so.

This means that, in America, the "higher powers" are not the men who occupy elected office; they are the tenets and principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution. Under our laws and form of government, it is the duty of every citizen, including our elected officials, to obey the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, this is how Romans Chapter 13 reads to Americans:

"Let every soul be subject unto the [U.S. Constitution.] For there is no [Constitution] but of God: the [Constitution] that be [is] ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the [Constitution], resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For [the Constitution is] not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the [Constitution]? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For [the Constitution] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for [the Constitution] beareth not the sword in vain: for [the Constitution] is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for [the Constitution is] God's minister, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour."

Dear Christian friend, the above is exactly the proper understanding of our responsibility to civil authority in these United States, according to the teaching of Romans Chapter 13.

Furthermore, Christians, above all people, should desire that their elected representatives submit to the Constitution, because it is constitutional government that has done more to protect Christian liberty than any other governing document ever devised by man. As I have noted before in this column, Biblical principles and Natural Law form the foundation of all three of America's founding documents: the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

(See: http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2005/cbar...e_20050630.html )

As a result, Christians in America (for the most part) have not had to face the painful decision to "obey God rather than men" and defy their civil authorities.

The problem in America today is that we have allowed our political leaders to violate their oaths of office and to ignore--and blatantly disobey--the "supreme Law of the Land," the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, if we truly believe Romans Chapter 13, we will insist and demand that our civil magistrates submit to the U.S. Constitution.

Now, how many of us Christians are going to truly obey Romans Chapter 13?

jofortruth	Posted: Jun 19 2010, 10:38 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Fema Clergy Response Teams, COG & Martial Law - Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTFmU_q0ErU Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfK62xu6h5Y Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVNscpZtL48

jofortruth	Posted: Feb 4 2011, 11:04 PM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	Chuck Baldwin on Romans 13: (Video) http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/home/?p=3014 State-Owned Churches Are Killing America http://www.prisonplanet.com/state-owned-ch...ng-america.html His son, Tim Baldwin, has written a book, to be released soon, on Romans 13 "Romans 13 The True Meaning of Submission"

jofortruth	Posted: Mar 10 2012, 10:44 AM
Administrator Group: Admin Posts: 31,485 Member No.: 1 Joined: 1-May 07	http://www.infowars.com/todays-american-ch...aldwin-reports/ Today's American Churches Are Neutered: Pastor Chuck Baldwin Reports 1/3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH37X8XV0_k

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