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Posted: Dec 13 2008, 03:19 PM
Member No.: 165
Joined: 13-December 08
THE WORLD’S MOST EVIL BELIEFS - IMHO
The world’s most evil beliefs & the most important issue
The eternal torment theology of the Arminian Christian relies on so-called “free will” and luck.
The god that Arminian Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures
“Unless you are lucky enough to find out about my son during this lifetime, and even if you are that lucky, if you don’t have the good sense to cooperate with my son properly before you die, then I am going to raise you from the dead and I will sustain you alive in an inescapable state of eternal torment forever.”
The eternal torment theology of the Calvinist Christian relies on God alone, not “free will” at all. It is summed up by the word TULIP: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and the Perseverance of the elect.
The god that Calvinistic Christian eternal tormentors profess to love says to his fallen creatures
"I created most of you for the purpose of torturing you forever. However, I am going to choose a few of you undeserving ones to go to heaven where you will be happy forever." John Calvin said there will be infants a span long in hell because they were not among the elect. (A span is the distance between the tip of the thumb to the tip of the little finger.)
And then both the Arminian and Calvinistic eternal tormentors say that the feelings that they have for this god of theirs is “love.”
Without God’s sustaining power everyone would cease to exist. So if anyone were to suffer forever, our all-powerful God (Who is Love in essence, not just loving) would be fully 100% responsible for it. We would have to conclude that any definition of the manifestation of “love-in-essence” includes eternally sustaining people alive in an inescapable state of suffering.
What a travesty; what a revolting definition of love it is that God, Who is love personified, would grant any creature a will so strong that they can choose themselves into an irreversible state of never ending suffering (Arminian) or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist)!!
Thank God the Bible does not teach such insane ideas!
Copy and paste one of the following titles into Google
SAVIOR OF THE WORLD SERIES EBY
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST
UNIVERSAL SALVATION UNIVERSITY
Anyone is welcome to believe anything they want to.
I'm just so glad I learned about the following information.
It enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78.
I'm 70 now.
I, and many others with whom I have become acquainted, simply could not successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone suffer forever. Here is the testimony of Charles Slagle who went insane for the same reasons that I did.
Copy and paste the following title into Google
ABSOLUTE ASSURANCE IN JESUS CHRIST or click on
Eternal Torment Calvinism, Eternal Torment Arminianism, Annihilation, or Christian Biblical Universalism.
Which one of the four is the truth?
This debate nearly always ends with the words, "My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars," and the result is a stalemate.
If readers think it glorifies God more to believe that He is going to let some of His
creatures suffer forever or annihilate them, then they should keep believing that.
But if they think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need, which is a change in their stubborn will, then I would like them to know that that is exactly what the Bible teaches that God is like.
THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE
The findings of Greek scholar Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars quoted in
chapters three and twelve of his online book IMHO renders all other arguments irrelevant.
IMHO these findings effectively close the case on the arguments that eternal tormentors try so hard to uphold.
But of course one has to actually read them to see what I mean.
Just Google up AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS and enjoy, or click on
The following colored chapter links probably may be activated on this post.
• About the Author
• Chapter1 - Definitions of Aion, Aionios
• Chapter2 - Usages of Aion
• Chapter3 - Opinion of the Scholars
• Chapter4 - Apparent Contradictions
• Chapter5 - "Forever and Ever" - A Poor Translation
• Chapter6 - What Saith The Translations?
• Chapter7 - Eonian Means What? - A Search For Truth
• Chapter8 - Greek Tools
• Chapter9 - Examples in Greek Literature
• Chapter10 - Bibles Without "Everlasting Punishment"
• Chapter11 - Verses "Proving" Punishment Will be Everlasting
• Chapter12 - Scholars Acknowledge Restitution of All
• Chapter13 - Punishment? Yes - Everlasting? No
• Chapter14 - A Long, But Not Eternal Visit To "Hell"
• Chapter15 - The "Chosen," Not "I have chosen"
• Chapter16 - Clearing Things Up
• Chapter17 - The Complete Revelation
• Appendix 1 - Commentary of Previous Presentation
• Appendix 2 - Do You Believe ALL in the Bible?
• Appendix 3 - Reconciliation Scriptures
• Appendix 4 - What Pleases the Father?
• Appendix 5 - What if we are Wrong?
• Christian Biblical Universalism versus Annihilation
• Bible Threatenings Explained
• Universal Salvation University
Posted: Dec 14 2008, 07:39 PM
Member No.: 1
Joined: 7-January 05
Interesting, and yes, the Bible is very clear that sinners do not burn forever and ever.
I believe it was James or Jude that said "Sodom and Gamorah are examples of eternal fire". They are gone, they aren't still here. That fire isn't still burning into eternity.
Its very clear in the Bible through Isaiah, Revelation, and the other books, that God will destroy the wicked, and entirely obliterate satan. There shall be no trace of them ever again.
Posted: Dec 15 2008, 05:22 AM
Member No.: 165
Joined: 13-December 08
You might be interested in checking out the reasons why some of us believe the Bible teaches universal salvation rather than annihilation.
Ezk 16:55 Sodom will be restored to its former estate.
ETERNAL DEATH ANNIHILATION?
WHAT ABOUT THE ANNIHILATION OF THE WICKED?
SATAN’S SALVATION ETCETERA - Grace super-exceeding!!!
Copy and paste into Google
THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE – Dr. Loyal Hurley
Since all of creation is in the Son of God’s love, through Whom God delights to reconcile all, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens, Col. 1:20, there is no more reason to suppose that Satan (and Hitler and Stalin) are not included therein than that any other creature is not included therein.
Therefore, it must be that that notable creature who had rightly long been termed “the Adversary,” is very much included in the reconciliation of the universe, at which time this title (“Adversary” or “Satan”) necessarily will no longer apply, since he will be reconciled and be at peace.
A time is coming when Satan himself, the instigator of human opposition and dissension will be beneath our feet. Rom. 16:20.
Now he dominates the actions of many a saint. But later his place and power will be taken from him and we will be above him, able to subdue and control the one who, next to our flesh, was the cause of most of our miseries.
Just as the enemies of Christ will figuratively find themselves a footstool for His feet, so will the greatest of all our enemies be placed beneath our power.
But best of all, we will not retaliate. We will not use our authority to further alienate and estrange Satan from God or from ourselves. We, to whom conciliation was first presented, will be conciliatory to all, and be able to bring back all our enemies into the circle of friendship and conciliation with God.
Doubtless due to Satan’s machinations, we cannot now even bring about peace among ourselves. But then all our own differences will have been dissolved, and we will be able to bring it to our erstwhile enemy in the spirit world, the Adversary himself.
Satan is an enemy of God, and must be included among the enemies reconciled to God by the blood of Christ's cross, one of those "in heaven." Since death is the last enemy, then Satan must be reconciled to God prior to the destruction of death, and the subsequent emptying of death, and the presentation of the whole reconciled universe to God, when God becomes All in all.
Copy and paste into Google
RECONCILIATION IN THE HEAVENS or click on
C.S. Lewis wrote, “The greatest surprise for Satan will occur when he learns that he has been perfectly doing the will of God all along.”
Personally I think the greatest demonstration of God’s grace in action among the celestials will be when Satan bows in humble submission and love in front of His Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Any hell that anyone will experience the Bible calls "kolasis aionian," which means age-during corrective chastisement.
It is limited in duration, and corrective in purpose.
I think that everyone who needs it will experience just the right amount of what the Bible calls "kolasis aionian" which means "age-during corrective chastisement."
Copy and paste into Google
THE LAKE OF FIRE EBY or click on
NO ONE IS BEYOND THE REACH OF GOD'S GRACE WHICH IS ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY INFLUENCE THE MOST STUBBORN OF WILLS.
We universal reconciliationists believe that because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the power in the blood of His cross, God will eventually transform all suffering into something better that it happened for everyone, and when evil and suffering has served God’s eonian purpose, God will eradicate them both from existence.
CHRIST TRIUMPHANT - Thomas Allin
Posted: Dec 15 2008, 09:35 PM
Member No.: 1
Joined: 7-January 05
I appreciate your beliefs, however, scripturally, you fail at a large magnitude. I suggest you take a look at ALL the scriptures that state ANNILATION.
Unless, you believe the bible isn't the infallible word of God. If so, then obviously you can believe whatever you want, as you don't have to match everything perfectly to the Bible.
However, if you do in fact believe that everything in the Bible is true, how can you simply ignore the passages in the Bible where it is made abundantly clear that the wicked are destroyed?
What you fail to understand is JUDGEMENT.
God is a just and righteous God, and he cannot allow sin to continue on.
If you actually read your Bible in revelation, you'd see that after the 1000 years in heaven, when we return to earth, satan and the mass of sinners from all time actually try to take over the holy city and even murder Jesus. Then it is recorded that God will destroy them. DESTROY THEM. Rev. 20:9.
When you die, your fate is sealed. Either for God or for Satan.
If you don't know the truth, God will judge you by your heart.
However, to believe that everyone, even Satan is renewed, is a vile, horrible, and unbiblical teaching that goes against what is stated clearly in the holy bible.
Rev. 3:5 - If we continue in sin, failing to overcome, openly rebelling against God, our names are blotted out of God's record.
Mal. 4:1,3 - The wicked are CONSUMED, BURNED UP, AND TURNED TO ASHES.
2 Peter 2:4 - The wicked are reserved unto judgement.
Prov. 10:25; Psalm 37:10,11,20,34,38 - The wicked will be totally consumed. They shall be cut off from the earth.
Psalm 37:10 - the wicked shall not be
Psalm 37:20 - the wicked shall perish, they shall consume away
Matt. 25:46 - their punishment is everlasting (meaning it is final and will never be changed)
Matt. 3:11,12 - The fire that consumes the wicked cannot stop till it totally eradicates all sin from the universe
Rev. 20:10 - The wicked shall be destroyed forever (meaning they are obliterated and never return)
Rev. 20:9 - fire comes down from God out of heaven and devours the wicked. THEY ARE COMPLETELY DESTROYED.
Ezek. 28:17,18 - Satan himself will be consumed to ashes
Ob. 16 - The wicked shall be as they had not seen
And many many more verses abound.
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