The Rapture & Seven Years of Tribulation, True or False?

My question is why do Christians believe in a Rapture when the Bible never says anything about a Rapture?!

The following was written by: Dennis Priebe



The Rapture Theory
There is a theological question that has disturbed millions of Christians,
and has lent untold doctrinal confusion to the modern religious world. That
question revolves around the manner of Christ's coming back to this earth at the
end of the world. Multitudes have been led to believe that Christ will return
secretly. What about the so-called secret rapture? A large number of Christians
have been exposed to this "dispensationalist" or "futurist" interpretation of
prophecy, and have been hopelessly confused.
According to this view, the coming of Jesus will be in two separate
events. First, He will come secretly to take the church to heaven, and then, seven
years later, He will come in an open demonstration of power and glory. In
between those two events, the Antichrist is supposed to come into power and the
great tribulation period take place.
But the truth is that the Bible nowhere speaks of these two separate
comings of Jesus. There is no second stage of His coming that occurs seven
years after the so-called "rapture." By the way, that word "rapture" is also an
invention of theologians. It can't be found in the Bible in even a single instance.
It's a word coined for the second advent of Jesus.
Now here's what we find in the Scriptures: Christ's coming, the
resurrection, and catching up of the saints to meet Jesus in the air, all take place
at the same time, at the end of the world. This is why Jesus said, "Lo, I am with
you always, even unto the end of the world." Matthew 28:20. Now why would
Jesus promise to be with the church until the end of the world if He intended to
come seven years before the end to take them out of the world? The promise
could have no meaning.

Will It Be Secret?
The secret rapture doctrine contradicts the words of Christ in Matthew
13 when He said that the wheat and tares would grow together until the "end of
the world" and then would be separated. According to the two-stage teaching of
His coming, both groups would not grow together until the end of the world.
The righteous would be separated from the wicked seven years before the end.
And what about the promise of the resurrection? Christ said, concerning the
righteous, "And I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:40. No one denies
that this means the last day of the world. Yet Paul declares that the saints are
caught up to meet the Lord at the same time the dead in Christ are raised. He
says, "For the Lord himself shall descend for heaven with a shout, with the voice
of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise
first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." I Thessalonians 4:16,17.
Please keep in mind that Jesus called this resurrection the "last day."
But how could it be the "last day" if this gathering of the saints takes place seven
years before the end of the world? And how could the "last trump" sound if it
really wasn't the very last moment of time?
Can you imagine the graves opening and the righteous rising and no
one knowing that it has occurred? And consider this additional testimony of the
Word of God: when the wicked see Christ come, they cry out to the rocks and
mountains, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the
throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come;
and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:16,17.
• Matthew 24:27 "For as the lightening cometh out of the east, and
shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."
• I Corinthians 14:52 "...for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead
shall be raised..."
• Psalm 50:3 "Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence."
• Revelation 1:7 "...every eye shall see him."
• Matthew 24:30 "...then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and
they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and
great glory."
• Matthew 24:31 "...he shall send his angels with a great sound of a
trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other." (This is clearly the time when Christ comes to
gather His saints.)
To say that the second coming of Christ to gather His saints will be
secret, in view of these clear texts of Scripture, and in the absence of any text
that even hints at His coming being secret, is to deny the Bible as the Word of
God. In an attempt to uphold their contrived theory, the rapturists quote
Matthew 24:40,41 out of context. Notice this entire passage:
"But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of
man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and
drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into
the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall
also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one
shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the
one shall be taken, and the other left." Matthew 24:37-41.
Jesus is clearly drawing a parallel between the second coming and the
days of Noah. Those who entered the ark in Noah's day were saved, and those
who refused to enter the ark were left outside. But what were they left for? For
another chance? No, obviously they were left to be destroyed by the flood. So,
says Jesus, will it be when He comes at the end of the world. One will be taken
to heaven with Jesus and the other will be left for destruction. Verse 51 makes
clear what happens to those who are left: "And shall cut him asunder, and
appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing
of teeth." Read Luke 17:26-37 for Luke's parallel account of these same words
of Jesus. In verse 36, the statement is made: "Two men shall be in the field; the
one shall be taken, and the other left." Now notice verse 37 and the question the
disciples asked: "And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord?" They
wanted to know where those who didn't go to heaven were going to be left.
Notice Jesus' clear answer: "And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is,
thither will the eagles be gathered together."
Take note how Jesus taught that their bodies are going to be left on the
ground for the eagles to consume. Scripture is too plain to be misunderstood.
Only as we accept all that the Bible says can we be safe from such deceptive
teachings that are confusing millions of sincere Christians today concerning this
most glorious event of all ages, the second coming of Jesus Christ.
Now, I realize that the rapturists hang onto the texts which liken the
Lord's coming to "a thief in the night." They assume that this must be a quiet,
secret coming. But does it really mean that? Let's show that it definitely does
not. Here is one of those texts in II Peter 3:10: "The day of the Lord will come
as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great
noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat." Obviously the "thief" part
has nothing to do with secrecy because the heavens pass away with a great
noise! And if "coming as a thief" is the secret rapture which takes place seven
years before the end of the world, how can the heavens and earth pass away as
Peter describes it? The heavens and earth could not pass away seven years
before the world ends. That is the end!
The fact is that Jesus Himself explained clearly just how a thief's
coming could be related to His coming: "Watch therefore: for ye know not what
hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the good man of the house had
known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would
not have suffered his house to be broken up." Matthew 24:42,43. There it is, so
plain and simple! The thief would come unexpectedly when the owners were not
looking for a thief. In the same way His coming would take people by surprise.
They would not be watching or looking for it.

Will Christ Return in Two Phases?
The dispensationalists teach that the two separate stages of Christ's
coming are indicated "in the Greek." They argue that there will first be the
Rapture (parousia), a secret coming; then seven years later will be the
Revelation (apokalupsis), His coming in power and glory. But, actually, instead
of teaching two separate events, the Greek terms are used interchangeably in the
Bible. They give no indication of a seven-year interval.
For example, Paul uses the word "parousia" in the famous rapture
chapter of I Thessalonians 4 in speaking of the coming of our Lord and our
gathering together unto Him. He then goes right on to show that this "parousia"
will destroy the man of sin. Speaking of the Antichrist, Paul says, "whom the
Lord shall...destroy with the brightness of his coming (parousia)." II
Thessalonians 2:8. These texts clearly describe the coming (parousia) of Christ
as taking place after the reign of the man of sin, not as an escape rapture before
the reign of the Antichrist begins.
The other Greek word 'apokalupsis' (revelation) is used in a way that
indicates it is not a separate coming from the time the believers are gathered up.
Peter said to "be sober, and hope to the end of the grace that is to be brought
unto you at the revelation (apokalupsis) of Jesus Christ." I Peter 1:13. Why
would Christians be exhorted to keep hoping to the very end (of the world) for
the grace brought through the REVELATION of Christ, if their real hope was a
secret rapture seven years before the REVELATION?
Now look at some verses which prove beyond a doubt that the two
words "parousia" and "apokalupsis" refer to the same event. In Matthew 24:37
we read, "but as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (parousia) of the
Son of man be." Luke's account of the same passage says, "As it was in the days
of Noe...Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed
(apokalpsis)." Luke 17:26,30. This shows that the coming (parousia) of Christ
and the revelation (apokalpsis) of Christ are the same event. There is absolutely
no basis for placing seven years in between.
Many dispensationalist teachers actually claim that the rapture is not
really the "coming" of Jesus at all. They say His coming is when Christ returns
in power seven years after the rapture. But what a contradictory, confusing
explanation that is! The fact is that there are many scriptures which admonish
Christians to wait and watch for the coming of the Lord. For example, James 5:7
says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord." But why
should Christians need to be patient unto the coming of the Lord if there is to be
a secret rapture to take them to heaven seven years before His coming?
Strange as it may seem, this whole counterfeit secret rapture is built
upon a constant repetition of words and ideas which are not found in the Bible at
all. But they have been repeated so often that millions have assumed that they
must be soundly biblical. Let's take a look at some of the texts which have been
used to support the doctrine of a two-phase coming of Christ. And please notice
that none of the verses actually say what some try to read into them. In fact, it is
only after a person has already assumed that Christ will return in two separate
comings that these verses could even suggest the idea.
Revelation 3:10 is often quoted to try to prove that the righteous will be
taken out of the world before the tribulation. "Because thou has kept the word of
my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come
upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." It is immediately
obvious that this text does not speak of the righteous leaving this world at all.
Jesus completely clarified the meaning by something He said in John 17:6,15
which sounds very similar. "They have kept thy word...I pray not that thou
shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the
evil." Don't miss the significance of the term "kept the word" in both these texts.
Both statements are talking about the same group of people. The faithful ones.
Now if those who "kept the word" can be "kept from the evil" of the
world without being taken out of the world, why should we suppose that a
special coming and secret rapture is required for those who "kept the word" to
be "kept from the hour of temptation"? Whatever else may be taught in
Revelation 3:10, it is evident that no extra coming of Christ is indicated.
True biblical doctrine must be based upon clear statements of what the
entire Bible teaches on a subject and not upon verses which offer only veiled
inferences. Luke 21:36 is an example of that very thing. Jesus said to His
disciples, "Pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these
things that shall come to pass..." How? By a secret rapture to take them to
heaven seven years before the end of the world? Definitely not, for in the prayer
of Jesus we read, "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but
that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." When He told them to "pray...to
escape...," He must have meant the same as when He prayed, "I pray not...take
them out of the world but...keep them." This rules out a secret rapture entirely.
The text that is used to prove the rapture is seen actually to forbid the saints
being taken out of this world during the time of trouble.

The Seven-Year Tribulation
Since so much rapturist theology revolves around the seven-year
period, one would assume that the Bible must speak frequently of such a time
period. But not so. There is not one single scriptural reference which ties the
seven years to the end of the world or the coming of Christ. Most rapturist
literature mention the seven-year tribulation period without offering any Bible
proof or explanation. Millions have assumed that it must be so well documented
that no proof is needed. In fact, the opposite is true. There just isn't any to give.
Most Bible students are amazed to learn that the rapturists try to justify
their seven years by lifting a prophecy of Daniel completely out of its context. In
Daniel 9:24-27 God made a daring prophecy concerning the probation of the
nation of Israel. He said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks ("weeks of years" RSV) are
determined upon they people...to finish the trangression, and to make an end of
sins..." (vs.24). Please notice that God was going to allow Daniel's people
seventy weeks to see what they would do with the Messiah when he appeared.
The seventy weeks are prophetic time, and each day represents a year (Ezekial
4:6). So the seventy weeks would be a literal period of 490 years, after which
the Israelites would no longer be God's people. They would be rejected as a
nation because of their rejection of the Messiah.
Don't miss the point in Daniel 9:25 that the prophecy of the seventy
weeks was to begin with the decree to restore and build Jerusalem. That well
known date is 457 B.C. when Artaxerxes sent out the decree (Exra 7:13). From
that date, 457 B.C., the Jews would have exactly 490 years to finish filling up
their cup of iniquity by rejecting the Messiah. That 490-year probation ended in
34 A.D. and the Jews ceased to be God's chosen people. Daniel 9:25 says that
the Messiah would be anointed after sixty-nine of those prophetic weeks had
passed by. That would be 483 years from the decree date of 457 B.C. It takes no
mathematician to figure the end of that prediction. It brings us to the year 27
A.D., the very year Jesus was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit anointed
Him for His minstry. Since "Messiah" means "Anointed One" this had to be the
fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy that the Messiah would appear in 27 A.D.
Now mark this fact. Seventy weeks were assigned to the Jewish
probation, but Christ appeared as the Messiah after sixty-nine weeks. That
leaves the seventieth week for Christ to minister BEFORE THE JEWS'
PROBATION ENDED. What was to happen in the seventieth week? Daniel
9:27 tells us, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and
in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."
The midst of the week would be three and a half days (years) from His
baptism. And according to the Bible, the ministry of Jesus lasted for three and a
half years. In the spring of 31 A.D. He was crucified. The veil of the temple was
rent (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of sacrifices. By His death He caused
them to cease. Another three and a half years would lead up to the end of the
seventy weeks and the end of Jewish probation. During that three and a half
years the disciples labored largely for the Jews. But in 34 A.D. the seventy
weeks ended; Stephen was stoned and the gospel began to go to the Gentiles
(Acts 8:4). The Jews had rejected the gospel message and were no longer God's
people just as Daniel had predicted. Henceforth they could be saved only as
individuals, in exactly the same way as the Gentiles. As a nation they had been
rejected as the chosen people. Here is the way the Bible describes that rejection:
• Matthew 21:43 "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you..."
• Matthew 21:19 "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to
it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow
on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (The
fig tree was a symbol of the Jewish nation.)
• Matthew 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate."
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• Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither
bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus."
• Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed,
and heirs according to the promise."
• Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the
Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
• Romans 9:6-8 "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children; but, In
Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the
promise are counted for the seed." (The New Testament teaches the acceptance
of spiritual Israel, and the rejection of physical Israel and the children of the
flesh.)
• Romans 2:28,29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly;
neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew,
which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not
in the letter."
• Acts 13:46 "It was necessary that the word of God should first
have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves
unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Now we see how the rapturists get their seven years' tribulation. They
lift that seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy completely out of its context and
shove it far into the future. They claim it will be fulfilled after Christ comes to
snatch away the righteous secretly. Incredible? Absolutely! But they must grasp
desperately for some text to support their seven years. They agree that the sixtynine
weeks of Daniel 9:25 refer to the period before Christ's first advent, but
then they insert a 2000-year gap before the seventieth week is fulfilled. They
allot 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus 1 week, or a total of 2,490 years. By this
devious manipulation of God's words, the rapturists believe they have extended
the Jewish probation; and based upon this, they teach that all the fleshly Jews
will be saved in a great second chance after the "secret rapture" takes place.
The tragedy of the rapture theory is that it takes these beautiful verses
of Daniel 9:24-27 that predict the coming of Jesus, His baptism and crucifixion,
and apply them to Antichrist. They do this by stating that it is Antichrist that
causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease after three and one-half years. But
Daniel states it is Jesus that causes the sacrificial system of the Jews to cease
when He died on the cross. A misinterpretation that confuses something that
Christ has done, and applies it to the devil instead, is certainly a tragic
occurrence. And yet this is the only way one can arrive at a seven-year
tribulation period. How sad!

When Does the Antichrist Appear?
Now we are brought to focus on the most glaring inconsistency of the
rapture theory, and that is that the Antichrist will not appear until after the saints
are caught away seven years before the end of the world. Paul settles the entire
matter for us in the first few verses of II Thessalonians 2. "Now we beseech you,
brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together
unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit,
nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no
man deceive you by any means: for that day (of our gathering together unto
Him) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin
(Antichrist) be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth
himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God
sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." Verses 1-4.
The words of Paul are so plain that it is difficult to comment on them.
How can they be plainer? The days of Christ's coming will not come "except
there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed." Show these
words to any child who has learned to read; show them to anyone not prejudiced
by "private" interpretations, and he will say, "These verses say that the man of
sin (Antichrist) is going to be revealed before Jesus comes."
Paul is not referring to some superman suddenly to appear 2,000 years
after his epistles. He wrote, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work."
Verse 7. While Paul lived, he combated the emerging spirit of the Antichrist. By
the sixth century A.D. Antichrist had matured. The crowning act in the great
drama of deception, however, awaits the return of the Lord: "And then shall that
Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth,
and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming." Verse 8. This clearly states
that Antichrist will be destroyed when Christ comes. He does not arrive after the
advent.
And here's the crowning deception in this whole thing: Revelation 20,
verse 4, assures us that some of those who are raised in the first resurrection will
be those who refused to worship the beast and receive his mark! How
completely this demolishes the futuristic school of prophetic interpretation is
evident, for they claim that the emergence of the Antichrist and the imposition
of his mark are to be looked for after the first resurrection and what they call the
rapture. Recently a radio preacher expressed this belief, "I don't expect to be
here when the beast is enforcing his mark upon the people. I expect to go up in
the rapture and be in heaven during the great tribulation time." But these verses
declare that some of those who come up in the 'first resurrection,' when Christ
comes the second time, have already refused to worship the Antichrist or receive
his mark! Thus the Antichrist must have already been on the stage of action
carrying on his oppressive work before the 'first resurrection' and well before the
advent of Christ.
Without attempting to establish the identity of Antichrist at this point,
let us notice how this teaching, that the Antichrist will come in the future,
originated. At the time of the Reformation, most of the reformers understood the
prophecy of the Antichrist to refer to the great apostate system of Romanism
that developed during the Middle Ages. Of course, Rome did not appreciate this
interpretation. Please notice Rome's course of action to nullify this
interpretation:
"So great a hold did the conviction that the Papacy was the Antichrist
gain upon the minds of men, that Rome at last saw she must bestir herself, and
try, by putting forth other systems of interpretation, to counteract the
identification of the Papacy with the Antichrist.
"Accordingly, toward the close of the century of the Reformation, two
of the most learned doctors set themselves to the task, each endeavoring by
different means to accomplish the same end, namely, that of diverting men's
minds from perceiving the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Antichrist in the
papal system. The Jesuit Alcasar devoted himself to bring into prominence the
preterist method of interpretation,...and thus endeavored to show that the
prophecies of Antichrist were fulfilled before the popes ever ruled in Rome, and
therefore could not apply to the Papacy.
"On the other hand, the Jesuit Ribera tried to set aside the application of
these prophecies to the papal power by bringing out the futurist system, which
asserts that these prophecies refer properly, not to the career of the Papacy, but
to some future supernatural individual, who is yet to appear, and continue in
power for three and a half years. Thus, as Alford says, the Jesuit Ribera, about
A.D. 1580, may be regarded as the founder of the futurist system of modern
times.
"...It is a matter for deep regret that those who advocate the futurist
system at the present day, Protestants as they are for the most part, are really
playing into the hands of Rome, and helping to screen the Papacy from detection
as the Antichrist." (Revered Joseph Tanner, Daniel and the Revelation, pp.
16,17)
Thus, the whole theory of the secret rapture with its future Antichrist
had its origin with the Jesuits in an attempt to take the blame off the Papacy.
The origin of the two-phase coming of Christ has an equally unsavory
history. It was not until around the year 1830 that this view began to be taught!
In the church pastored by Edward Irving, a Miss Margaret McDonald gave what
was believed at the time to be an inspired utterance. She spoke of the visible,
open and glorious second coming of Christ. BUT as the utterance continued, she
spoke of another coming of Christ, a secret and special coming in which those
that were truly ready would be raptured.
It was John Nelson Darby, a Brethren preacher and diligent writer of
the time in England, however, who was largely responsible for introducing this
new teaching on a large scale. The teaching spread to the United States in the
1850's and 1860's, where it was to receive its biggest boost when Cyrus Ingerson
Scofield, a strong believer in Darby's teachings, incorporated it into the notes of
his "Scofield Reference Bible" which was published in 1909. Since that time,
this view has been widely accepted, often by people who are completely
unaware that this was not the belief held by Christians over the centuries. Many
fine Christians hold his view today who have never questioned it.
Oswald Smith, noted minister and author of Toronto, says in his
booklet, "Tribulation or Rapture, Which?" that he once held the two-stage
teaching, but that when he began to search the scriptures for himself he
discovered that there is not a single verse in the Bible to uphold this view. He
confessed: "I had been taught that the Greek word 'parousia' always referred to
the Rapture and that other words were used for the Coming of Christ in
glory...but I found that this is not true...We might go through all the writers of
the New Testament, and we would fail to discover any indication of the socalled
'two-stages' of our Lord's coming...That theory had to be invented by
man. Search and see. There is no verse in the Bible that even mentions it."

The Second Chance
Finally, the SECRET RAPTURISTS claim that during the tribulation
those not raptured will be given another chance to be saved.
Let it be categorically stated that nowhere does Scripture speak of a
second chance, nor does the Bible anywhere speak of people being saved after
Jesus comes. This is just another man-made doctrine that is indeed pleasing to
the carnal heart of man. Actually, the Bible teaches the opposite. Notice these
clear texts of Scripture:
• II Corinthians 6:2 "Behold, NOW is the ACCEPTED TIME;
behold, now is the day of salvation."
• Revelation 22:11,12 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and
he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be
righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come
quickly; and my reward is with me." (Evidently probation closes just prior to the
second Advent.)
• Jeremiah 8:20 "The harvest (day of second coming), is past, the
summer is ended, and we are NOT saved."
• When Jesus comes the second time, He carries "in his hand a sharp
sickle." Revelation 14:14. This is the reaping time after sixty centuries of the
sowing of the seeds of sin. This is the harvest time and "the harvest is the end of
the world." Matthew 13:39. "And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on
the earth; and the earth was reaped." Revelation 14:16. Truly did Jeremiah say,
"The harvest is past...and we are not saved." Jeremiah 8:20. There can be no
saving after the reaping of earth's harvest at the coming of Christ.
• When Jesus and His holy angels appear, then "before him shall be
gathered all nations." Matthew 25:32. There will only be two classes in that
great company. The destiny of each has been set by what he did before the
coming of Christ.
Let us stand firm on the Word of God alone and reject these man-made,
man-pleasing ideas that form the bulk of the whole secret rapture theory. As we
have noticed, the Bible clearly teaches that Jesus Christ will come the second
time in glorious majesty to take His redeemed home with Him. It will be a
personal, visible, and an earthshaking event that everyone alive will know about.
The righteous will be caught up and meet the Lord in the air, whereas the
wicked will be slain by the brightness of that coming (II Thessalonians 2:8). Let
us carefully study our Bibles that we will not be deceived concerning this most
important and wonderful hope, the second coming of Jesus.
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What do you have to say to that?

Not sure about the years of tribulation but this should contradict a few things you said:

Revelation 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.

Meaning: Christians are going to be spared the judgements!

"Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

This doesn't say that we got to Heaven, it only says we are kept from the hour of temptation.

How can there be a secret rapture if the Bible says that "every eye shall see Him"? When Jesus comes, the Bible says Jesus' Second Coming will be with a "with a SHOUT, and the trump of God"(1 Thessalonians 4:16...read 13-18)...that sure doesn't sound secretive to me. lo!
I don't see anywhere in the Bible where it says that there will be a 7 years of tribulation, either.
The whole earth is going to see Jesus coming in the clouds of Heaven! The Bible says in Revelation 20: 6...read 1-15) "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection,... rather than the second resurrection, (which the Bible calls the second death), reserved for the wicked, which hath no power! The Bible says when Jesus comes, He's bringing all the angels with Him, to gather up (Jesus' feet NEVER touch the earth at Christ's Second Coming - 1 Thessalonians 4:17)...He gathers up all of His Saints to take back to Heaven with Him, to reign with Him for 1,000 years(Revelation 20:6)...Satan is chained to this earth during the 1,000 years with no one to tempt...that's why it says that Satan is BOUND to the bottomless pit!(Revelation 20:1-3) The wicked have been destroyed by the brightness of His Second Coming, and Satan has 1,000 years on this earth with no one to tempt, leaving him alone to think about all the evil he has done, (along with the evil angels). Then, after the 1,000 years is over,(Revelation 20:6-10)) the Bible says that as Jesus returns with the angels and the saints, to this earth the third time, (after the 1,000 years is over), the wicked will be resurrected to receive their JUST reward from God. The saints are safe, inside the Holy City, while in a useless attempt, Satan rounds up the resurrected wicked, and tries one last time to attack the City of God, but they are destroyed with fire, and the earth is made NEW, and ALL sin is destroyed forever!(Revelation 20:14,15; 21:8) All the Saints; all the angels; will have absolutely no reason to question if God was fair and JUST with each person that He created, for it will be made known in the record books by everyone, that it was by everyone's personal choice whether they chose to serve God, or other gods that they cherished more. The Bible says that when the controversy is over between Christ and Satan,"EVERY knee shall bow" (including Satan), and "EVERY tongue shall confess" to God. (Romans 14:11) and acknowledge that He was fair and JUST with EVERY reward given to each person, (including Satan and his angels), according to their works. (Revelation 22:11-15) Ecclesiastes 12:13,14 says this: "Let us hear the conclusion of the WHOLE matter: Fear God, and KEEP His Commandments: for this is the WHOLE duty of man. For God shall bring EVERY work into JUDGEMENT, with EVERY secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." (Read all 12 Chapters of Ecclesiastes; they are not very long). If there's anyone reading this, and your desire is to to study to know more about what the Bible teaches on this subject, just go to:..... www.Amazingfacts.org......You'll find that everything presented, is straight from the Bible, so you can easily study God's Truth for yourself. Lo!

Right. If Revelation 1:7 "...every eye shall see him." how can there be a secret coming. This 'secret coming' refers to how he will come unexpectedly to those who do not watch the signs. Meaning, no one really knows the exact time he'll come.

"But of that day and hour knoweth NO MAN, no, NOT THE ANGELS of Heaven, but MY FATHER ONLY! (Matthew 22:36).

I think that the secret rapture is unscriptural, and damaging to Christianity. I've seen that in many people have made it an idol. "Get saved so you can receive the rapture and not be left behind".

By Matthew 24, those that have a foundation in Him, will be able to withstand the tribulation to come. The wicked are swept away, like in the days of Noah.

if it doesn't say that there will be a rapture, then there won't be. but there are spots in the bible that probably gave people the idea that there will be a rapture

There are spots that say one is taken, the other is left. However, NO MENTION OF A RAPTURE! Even the early christians and the diciples did not believe in such things!

isn't that what a rapture is? people getting taken? how else can that verse be explained? the one who got taken didn't get taken by aliens, but by God.

Ok, look, they often say that one is taken and the other is left. However, the verse they use is horrible, it says one is taken and the other is left, however right before the verse the bible talks about Noah and how the sinners were taken and the righteous were left alive.

Do you see the connection? The taken are the sinners, we are the righteous who stay safe in christ.

ok, ok. i see the connection.

DOES IT REALLY MATTER IF WE KNOW EXACTLY HOW JESUS IS COMING OR NOT?? All that matters is that Jesus is coming. Its not up to us to know how or exactly when He is coming. We need to watch for the signs, but Jesus is coming back whether there is a rapture or not, whether there is a Great Tribulation or not, whether we know how He is going to do it or not. Whether it is secret or not.

Actually, the book of Revelation says that BLESSED IS HE WHO READS THIS BOOK AND UNDERSTANDS IT. It's telling us that if we understand Jesus's coming, then we are blessed by God.

Also, If we believe lies that the bible doesn't teach, we could join a denomination that is wrong and we could have our faith eventually destroyed. God is a god of TRUTH, Satan is the father of LIES. The rapture is a LIE, so it stands to reason that God wants us to search the sriptures dilligently for answers that he has provided for us.

But the bible doesn't say "blessed are those who argue against each other about how Jesus is coming, for he will inherit the Kingdom of God". God blesses us in other ways too, its not like we'll only be blessed if we read the book and understand it.

The bible doesn't mention a rapture, but it doesn't say anything against one either. The rapture isn't a lie exactly if people who believe in it got the idea from THE BIBLE. What about "one being taken and the other left behind"? That's not the exact wording but you know what I mean. The bible is definately not saying one will get abducted by aliens.

Gosh you're harsh sometimes. I know very well that God is a god of truth and Satan is the father of lies. But you can't be completely sure the rapture is a lie, you're not all-knowing. You could be wrong. So could I and I know that, but if you think you're always right, thats pride.

I'll study this topic more. I'll either prove that the rapture COULD be true or I'll find that you're right. Either way, there's no point having a heated argument about this.

The bible can be interpreted different ways, just know that. I think that's why we disagree on so much stuff.

Your wrong. The Bible does say their can't be a rapture. It says it clearly. It CLEARLY says that God's people are left on earth during the plagues and it says that the wicked try to kill them after a death decree is sent out against God's people. It that says that JESUS COMES ONLY THEN TO SAVE US. He doesn't take people away, he never said that.

Another thing, the Rapture was thought of by 1 man only, and he was a Jesuit Priest. Now, no offence, but the Jesuits are a real big cult that has some crazy beliefs. The problem was is that christians who didn't read their bibles believed what he said and then it bacame a fad belief that is still arround.


The rapture is never metnioned in the bible and it clearly shows us how the end of time happens. We need to trust the bible, not a Jesuit Priest who suddenly got an idea when reading the bible. If the bible says that the first time Jesus comes back, that the whole world see's him and hears trumpets, their can't be a secret rapture.


However, when he comes, we WILL BE raptured into the sky with all the believers throughtout the ages. But it won't be a secret, all the world will see us flying upward to Jesus.

>>>There are spots that say one is taken, the other is left. However, NO MENTION OF A RAPTURE! Even the early christians and the diciples did not believe in such things!

There clearly is a rapture in Scripture (1Thessalonians 4:16-17). The debate is over when it will take place: at Christ's second coming to earth, or before.

>>>Ok, look, they often say that one is taken and the other is left. However, the verse they use is horrible, it says one is taken and the other is left,

I agree, and most pre-tribulationists would also. This verse is a reference to the judgement immediately before Christ comes. The wicked will be taken and be judged, the righteous will be left. If it were a verse describing the rapture, it must be a post-tribulation rapture (which would cause serious problems: Revelation 3:10, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 3:13, 5:9 etc.).

>>>Also, If we believe lies that the bible doesn't teach, we could join a denomination that is wrong and we could have our faith eventually destroyed. God is a god of TRUTH, Satan is the father of LIES. The rapture is a LIE, so it stands to reason that God wants us to search the sriptures dilligently for answers that he has provided for us.

Pre-tribulationists, mid-tribulationists, post-tribulationists, amillenialists, and postmillenialists all base their beliefs on some sort of Scripture (not matter how off base it may be). But to insist that everyone who disagrees with your interpetation (which I assure you has many problems itself) is preaching "LIES" of Satan is rediculous. Calling things lies of Satan and not listening to the other side doesn't spark reasoned debate but ad hominem attacks. As a result, no one gets anywhere. It's important we debate, but not become too quarrelsome and unkind to one another. (2 Timothy 2:24). The only things we should divide over and call "lies of Satan"(politely) are those things that contradict the essential doctrines of the Christian faith (i.e., Arianism, Tritheism, Modalism, Docetism, Nestorianism, the denial of Christ's physical ressurection, etc.)

>>>Your wrong. The Bible does say their can't be a rapture. It says it clearly. It CLEARLY says that God's people are left on earth during the plagues and it says that the wicked try to kill them after a death decree is sent out against God's people. It that says that JESUS COMES ONLY THEN TO SAVE US. He doesn't take people away, he never said that.

Yes, God's people are mentioned. But those people are Israel, the church is an entirely seperate group (Romans 11:1-2, Revelation 1-3, cf. Revelation 7:4-9).

>>>He doesn't take people away, he never said that

Yes He will, you admitted it yourself: "However, when he comes, we WILL BE raptured into the sky with all the believers throughtout the ages. But it won't be a secret, all the world will see us flying upward to Jesus. " Jesus will take His church from the earth As I said before, the debate it over when.

>>>Now, no offence, but the Jesuits are a real big cult that has some crazy beliefs.

No offense to you, and I sincerely mean this, but there are many who consider Seventh Day Adventism to be a big cult. I disagree, but the point is that there are many different views. We should listen to those views and compare them with Scripture.

Sincerely,
Dean

Wow, you sure took that verse and stretched it. How can you even THINK that you saw a reference to a SECRET rapture.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hello, there's nothing there even suggesting a SECRET rapture. Hello, the dead are rising and people are flying upward, people will notice these things. lol

And this is clearly taking place AT the second coming of Christ.

No, it's the church. Isreal lost it's chance, they're important, but God's church is now what's important. Isreal REJECTED Jesus. God's remanant church is what it refers to.

I fully agree, but do some research on Jesuits. There are some SERIOUS problems with their history and doctrines. However we should research their claims and test them to Scripture.


-Matt

Amen! I fully aggree, and I honestly cannot see anything in there to suggest a SECRET RAPTURE. Like Matt said, what the verse mentions will be NOTICEABLE. People don't fly arround and the dead don't rise every day you know. lol

That is so true, true christians are really SPIRITUAL JEWS, why? Because we ACCEPTED Christ, and so we recieve the same blessings promised to Abraham and his seed. As sad as it to say, Isreal DID REJECT Jesus.

Yes, we must always be open to different view points, but must always test them against the Holy Scriptures.

However, I have read up on the Jesuits history, and well, it's dark, very dark. And still is. I wouldn't trust anything they say, just read up on them, it would scare you slightly.

<<<Wow, you sure took that verse and stretched it. How can you even THINK that you saw a reference to a SECRET rapture.>>>

This is typical in debates, it's called a straw-man argument. You 'tear apart' something that I never argued for. Firstly, I used this verse to say that there is a rapture, which you've agreed with many times. Secondly, I, nor any other pre-tribulationist that I know of, argued for a "SECRET" rapture. Obviously people will notice millions being raptured.

<<<Hello, there's nothing there even suggesting a SECRET rapture. Hello, the dead are rising and people are flying upward, people will notice these things. lol>>

I agree, and never have disagreed. There is no "SECRET" rapture.

<<<No, it's the church. Isreal lost it's chance, they're important, but God's church is now what's important. Isreal REJECTED Jesus. God's remanant church is what it refers to.>>>

Romans 11:25-29 "For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery--so that you will not be wise in your own estimation--that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in;
and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, "THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION, HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."
"THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS."
From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. "

The problem for your interpetation (and the Catholic Church's, I might add) is that it doesn't meantion 'God's remnant church.' It says Israel. In fact, all through Romans 11 the Gentiles believers and Israel are described as two separate groups.
Paul goes on and compares "Israel" with the "Gentiles". The church is mostly Gentiles, obviously, the opposite would be the non-Gentiles: the Jews. Paul also sais that 'Israel' is our enemies from the standpoint of the gospel. "Spiritual Israel" is not our enemy is it? So Paul is speaking to the Gentile church (Romans 11:13) and comparing and contrasting them to Israel.
Really, I encourage everyone to read the entire chapter of Romans 11 with an open mind to what it teaches. It very clearly is refering to Jacob, Israel. Any other interpretation is full of contradictions.

<<<As sad as it to say, Isreal DID REJECT Jesus.>>>

Yes, and will return. (Romans 11)

<<<That is so true, true christians are really SPIRITUAL JEWS,>>>

That concept is found nowhere in Scripture.

God Bless,
Dean