2500pt WOC armies (new to WOC!), Which list is better?

[guardian angel]

Yay, first post!

Ok, now that's outta the way, I have recently started playing WOC and had my first few games with a 2000pt list a few weeks back. I did ok, but I really wanted a lord in the list so I've designed 2 similar lists to get my lord in.
I know people say a sorcerer lord is more points effecient, however I really want to try a combat lord as I think they're COOL
Therefore I have drawn up the two lists below. The core of the lists is very similar, with a few changes in characters mainly.

What do you guys think? Areas for improvement? Which is the better list?

Also specifically on the lord builds, has anyone tried the jugg+daemonsword build? How has it worked in reality?

Anyhow the lists:

List 1:

Lord:
Lord+MoT+shield+bard horse+axe of K+fav of gods+C of K+word of ag=369 (All round lord, can handle challenges to. Goes with the knights with the war ban)

Heroes:
Ex hero+flail+shield+MoT+disc+golden eye+bsb=199 (warmachine hunter etc)
Sorcerer+lvl2+MoT+book of sec+scroll=190 (offensive/defensive wizard)
Sorcerer+lvl2+MoN+pow fam+scroll=190 (offensive/defensive wizard)

Core:
5 warhounds
6 warhounds
6 warhounds
11 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=215
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=335
5 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=285
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Rare:
Spawn (distraction & mini tarpit!)

Total=2499


List 2:

Lord:
Lord+MoK+jugg+daemonsword+en shield+fav of gods=370 (An absolute killing machine! Should kill whatever he hits and maybe even himself!)

Heroes:
Ex hero+flail+shield+MoT+disc+golden eye+bsb+bcr=219 (warmachine hunter etc)
Sorcerer+2 scrolls=135
Sorcerer+2 scrolls=135

Core:
5 warhounds
6 warhounds
6 warhounds
11 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=215
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=335
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=325
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Rare:
Scyla

Total=2500

Cheers guys

[ukko]

Personally, I really don't rate the daemon sword - with so many combat heroes in other books effectively unkillable, it's not a great idea to kit out your 350 point odd model to kill himself to get extra punch.

The first list better IMO

Welcome to the forum!

[David L]

450 points in infantry with no magic is going to be extra tough. The odds of those units doing something positive is quite small.

I've tried the daemonsword lord 3 times. All were awful. When he got in combat, he could not consistently produce enough damage to avoid losing combat and fleeing. Or he got blown apart at range.

[guardian angel]

Cheers for the advice guys.

I had thought the daemonsword lord may be to random to be used, and you guys have just confirmed it:)

Guess I'll go for the first list and see how it goes. May give the daemonsword lord one go though, for fun and all!

[guardian angel]

So, I had my fist couple of games with the juggernaut lord last night. AS has been said the daemonsword really isn't worth it. He wounded himself once then killed a bunch of stuff, but he's to random. It was good to try him, but I think he'll be left on the shelf from now on.

Scyla was pretty good though. Worked out better than I thought. The 3d6 movement really does help.

Anyhow, am liking how the list plays for the most part, just need to sort out the characters now.

[guardian angel]

So, was having a think about this last night and came up with another variation! The main change here is to put a sorcerer on a chariot! The idea being after he's used his scroll he can be used more aggresively, hence the warrior familiar.

Has anybody tried this? Do you think it could work well?

Anyhow, the modified list:

Lord:
Lord+MoT+shield+bard horse+axe of K+fav of gods+C of K+word of ag=369

Heroes:
Ex hero+flail+shield+MoT+disc+golden eye+bsb=199
Sorcerer+2 scrolls=135
Sorcerer+MoS+war fam+scroll+chariot with MoS=245

Core:
5 warhounds
6 warhounds
6 warhounds
11 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=215
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=335
5 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=285
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Rare:
Spawn

Total=2499

[ukko]

It is indeed a good way of kitting out a caddy, and one of the few ways I find I can justify a chariot. Save yourself a couple of points by not marking him though - if the chariot has MoS then he's Immune to fear, etc anyway.

[guardian angel]

Ah, good point! That will allow me another warhound

[guardian angel]

Have come up with another varient list, this time including more magic. Is this a stronger list than the previous two lists?

Lord:
Lord+lvl4+MoT+disc+BCR+golden eye+spell fam+book of sec+en shield=410

Heroes:
Ex hero+MoK+shield+jugg+bronze arm+glaive of p=220
Sorcerer+lvl2+MoN+pow fam+scroll=190
Sorcerer+MoT+puppet=140

Core:
6 warhounds
6 warhounds
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=325
5 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=295
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Rare:
Spawn

Total=2498

[guardian angel]

So, after a game last night I am thinking about changing the list slightly to this:

Lord:
Lord+lvl4+MoT+disc+golden eye+spell fam+book of sec+en shield=390

Heroes:
Ex hero+MoK+shield+jugg+bronze arm+s of might+fav o gods=220
Sorcerer+lvl2+MoN+pow fam+scroll=190
Sorcerer+MoT+puppet=140

Core:
5 warhounds
5 warhounds
5 warhounds
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
12 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb=232
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=325
5 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=295
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Rare:
Spawn

I didn't play with the spawn yet and don't know if he'll be worth it or not. If not, I'm not sure what to do with his points? Maybe make the exalted a bsb and get some more hounds?
How useful have people found solo spawns anyhow?

[Eta]

Spawns have proved to be very useful for me. They can easily hold up almost any of the fast cavalry or skirmisher units that want to go around your flanks. Furthermore, they are the only units in our list with 360° charge arc - they can deal with flyers behind your lines.
If you manage to get them in base to base contact with enemy mages they will usually eat them without many problems.

Greetings
Eta

[guardian angel]

So, I've had another rethink! What do you guys think of this:

Lord:
Lord+lvl4+MoT+disc+golden eye+spell fam+book of sec+en shield=390

Heroes:
Ex hero+MoT+shield+disc+flail+bsb+CoK=199
Sorcerer+lvl2+MoN+pow fam+scroll=190
Sorcerer+MoT+puppet=140

Core:
5 warhounds
5 warhounds
18 warriors+MoS+shields+halberds+m+sb+rap std=354
25 marauders+MoS+shields+la+fc=180
5 horsemen+MoS+la+flails+m=96

Special:
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+war ban=325
6 knights+MoN+m+sb+ban of rage=335
3 Dragon ogres+gw's=231

Total = 2500

The idea is that the warriors form a solid block with the marauders for support. This gives 2 solid blocks and still quite a lot of fast hitty units.
Has anyone tried big marauder blocks how did they fair? Do you think this list could work?

[ChrisM]

Interesting idea with the infantry core. To tell the truth the extra rank of warriors is probably not needed - instead you could drop a rank and invest in something like a warshrine for some cool bonuses (luck dependent!) or a pair of spawns to protect your back line from march blocking scouts/flyers. You also need to adjust the hound/knights numbers, maybe making the knights 5 strong to free up points needed to put your sorcerors on horsies!