I'd like an idea of what you guys think are "good" topics for the sketch group. How general or specific do you like things? I guess I feel if a topic is too specific (say, "Imperial Navy vessels" or "Ork Warbosses") then people might not participate - but then arguably part of the sketch group is being pushed to try something you might not ordinarily consider.

I'd really like an insight into the sort of topics you'd like to see, the sort of topics you don't like, and how general or specific you'd like the topics to be.

at least for me, I like the vague ones: Mercenaries, Snipers, Masks... I find them challenging and engaging because it allows me to choose what to draw, getting too specific (like the first week) or Captain on Deck, I feel a little more restricted.

however, with more restricted topics, it feels more like a commission to me, which is cool as well.

either way you go, it's great. I'm able to keep this up because I draw them while I'm at work sitting on hold...

Keep it up!

I gotta agree with Strigoi - I'm good with specific or vague! :)

My participation is more dependent on the time available to me in real-life. <_<

I think it is kinda cool when you give a phrase and let people go from there.

For example:

"Keep your head down!"

Now people can draw whatever they want to illustrate this simple phrase. It can easily apply to 40K or Fantasy and let's people draw any race they want.

gotta agree with stuggy here (and thus, stirogi).

Most of my restriction in participation is due to other timeconsuming obligations.

I'm the same, I like either specific or broad topics. I just haven't been active over the last two weeks because of fairly heavy deadlines and spare time going elsewhere.

Well, thanks for the feedback, guys. It's a shame you're all so busy!

Yes, the old business... that's always my problem as well. But I will continue to contribute what and when I can.

As for some feedback on the topics, I'm fine with either, but it really depends on what sort of art we all wanna see here.
I love topics that are more defined, though, as they allow you to compare yourself with other artists more directly. After all a sketchgroup should serve the purpose of improving your skills (not exclusively of course).

So, while I'd be totally fine with phrases and such loose topics, I would also like to see things like a topic that defines not only the subject, but also the format it might be used for. Examples could include a set of miniature concepts, an environment concept for a computer game, a simple rulebook illustration, you get the idea.

What I personally would like to see most in this sketchgroup are sketches... not better, but more. Show us your journey, how you got to that final sketch that you're gonna use. Anything from rough doodles to block in colour concepts.

Obviously I would also quite like to see other competitions start up. A finished art challenge of sorts. I know it's probably in the works, but I think just putting one out there would be a great start *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

Just my two cents ;)

Here's another quick thought:

If the topic is "open", I get the impression that the majority of artists here would choose 40K over Fantasy as a setting.

So I was thinking, maybe some Fantasy specific topics might be a good idea... just to stir things up a bit every now and then.

I have noticed that the tendency is to draw 40k rather than Fantasy. I think Col's Tzeentchian warrior was the first Fantasy drawing for a WSG in a long time! Then again, the 40k forum is far busier than the Fantasy one, and arguably 40k is the more popular game. I'll certainly give some thought to fantasy-specific topics, and if people want some, please chime in and let me know!

I'm for fantasy specific topics every now and again.

The thing is that, thus far, Fantasy has been under-represented on the board. In some ways, that's because most of our members have been recruited from 40k forums, but just about every time I've given people the choice between 40k and Fantasy in WSG topics, they've taken the 40k option.

Of course, that shows we should recruit from the Fantasy crowd, but I'm unsure if the board members would want to be restricted solely to Fantasy topics. I guess that's why I need input from users! :)

When I led KWSG, I tried to put up topics that where "dual" in that they could be used to depict both fantasy and 40k... then again, KWSG didn't really have that much participation back then ;)

I's always good to try something new, even just for one week or so. I'm just saying that we could go on a ten week cycle for example, with seven dual topics, two 40k, and one fantasy. Something like that.. And I entered the old KWSG once or twice, col. :P

Well, that's just it - I've done a number of "dual" topics - even giving people suggestions in the brief - but the only fantasy picture in ten weeks has been Col's Tzeentchian warrior w/slave.

yay me ;)

It's okay Mol, just keep the topics coming and once in a while I'll ty to do a fantasy twist on them to show people it could be done :P

So I'm leaving feedback.

Thought this was pretty harsh actually.

Whereas I understand the reasoning behind "we are 40k focused" it is not, by even a long shot, a reason as to keep people from turning in whfb-focused entries when it is actually possible to do so within the scopes of the topic.

I'm sorry, but giving the topic a possibility to broaden itself does not equal lesser entries. Lesser entries happen when the topic in itself interest the board members less.

And my concern is that this:

Can just as easily be taken in a whfb-theme.

The only thing that would need omission would be "holo-shows" and "commissar Cain" (which I'm hoping isn't a requirement for the topic, as it would automatically rule out any entries from anyone who haven't read those particular books).

For the rest, the Empire of mankind and the Imperium face a similar threat (though the scale of an entire galaxy is greater then that of a planet/continent) and have similar indoctrinations needed.


Now, I'm not saying the brief should be differently or "open for interpretation", but what I'm saying is- when a member of the forum suggest that the topic could be up for an entry that is fantasy-focused version, it is wrong to just claim that this would lessen, automatically, the entries for that week.

I sure as **** wasn't intending on putting a fantasy-focused sketch in the topic, but now I'm leaning more towards no entry at all..

Well, the Commissar Cain series is itself a requirement in the sense that task one of WSG#12 references three holo-shows and/or books from the series written by Sandy Mitchell. In doing those three shows, I gave the artists all the information the series includes, so they wouldn't have to have read the trilogy.

Fantasy entries are something I'm keen to promote. I've said that numerous times. But I don't want to just do generic topics every week. WSGs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 and 11 have all had options for fantasy entries. In many of those topics, I've specifically suggested fantasy options. If anything, I've deliberately tried to broaden topics throughout the series. The only one I can say that specifically has been 40k thus far has been the "Imperial Assassins" topic - which was one of our most popular.

I've been consistently giving people fantasy options, and off the top of my head we've had your Tzeentchian Warrior, Precinctomega's courtesan w/mask, the Boba Fett Tilean and Dazz1286's Kislev bear tamer. In twelve weeks.

It is a concern of mine that we don't have much in the way of a Fantasy userbase, and I would like to take the Illuminatus name to fantasy forums. With that said, it seems to me somewhat that the WFB forumsphere is less developed than the 40k one.

A number of users, Schwager included, have said that they prefer more specific briefs as it gives a more level playing field to compare the entries. Something like "masks" is so general that we can have Ork Burnas next to Eldar Pathfinders. Something like WSG#10 or #12 is more specific.

If I did a WSG saying "redesign Space Marines" - something you've stated an interest in - would you demand a WFB option? It's silly.

In the future (and we do have another 40 WSGs in Series Two) there will be Fantasy-specific (and Fantasy-only) topics, provided the interest is there. It's just that because 40k is the genre most of our artists seem most interested in, it's the direction I've chosen.

You're well within your rights not to participate if a week's topic doesn't interest you, but my goal with the WSG is to pose interesting challenges that might take people out of their comfort zone and to do something different for the challenge.

Cut some in the quote, to bring the things up that was within the scopes of what I was referring to.

Yes, but what does this have to do with interpretation that gives an option for more whfb entries?

No, because just as silly would be you asking us to reinvent skinks or elves and we do 40k versions. The part of reinventing in itself is pointing at a specific genre of the two. The current topic has a certain level of opportunity for interpreting it though, and the only thing keeping from that is one word:
"Holo-shows".

My point with the reply was that- removing that word, you could have a whfb-topic. Simple as that.

My point with the feedback was that your answer made it seem that since we have less whfb entries in any given kwsg-topic, this week there should be no room for whfb entries.
For wanting to support more whfb-entries that sounds counter-productive.


What I was trying to do was what I already said in my previous reply on this very page-

WSG #14 "Forced Feedback"

Well, what can I say? Personally I think that Commissar Molotov is doing a fantastic job with the weekly sketchgroup so far. The topics are varied and imaginative, the briefs are concise and there is always plenty of room to let one's imagination run wild.

On the ever popular topic of Fantasy specific themes, I'm all for them. In fact, I would even suggest branching out further into topics that might be strictly set in one of the Specialist Games settings, like Mordheim, Epic or Blood Bowl (the best GW game ever)!

I think the volume of entries we get each week is a good indicator that you're on the right track with things, Mol... so just keep it coming :D

WSG #14 "Forced Feedback"

I have so far really liked most of the entries I have taken part in. But I am not a very good 'people' drawer. I much prefer tacking my time over the mathmatics of a drawing and producing a ship or a building, as such my favourite so far was WSG #13.

Although my entry was rushed and wasn't great, the freedom to redesing the worst (IMO) 40k race and vehicals was brilliant, I had almost too many ideas to really draw them all, and it wasn't until Sunday when I settled on one theme and idea.

I would say that the least favourite I participated in was WSG #12, I found the topi very hard to get my head around, I understood it and in doing so I realised that very few people really did the breif correctly (me not being one of them). Things like "Consider the key virtues of the Imperium, and how your show could portray them. Consider the role of the media in skewing events" Seemed more like an essay title, rather than a drawing brief. I totally appreciate the want for a really detailed, well thought out and brilliant delivered piece...I just don't think that's what a 'sketch' was meant to be.

I would like to point out though, that despite my critisims for WSG #12, it was still a great topic with some brilliant entrie. It was my least favourite out of like 7 BRILLIANT topics.

I'm really happy with the WSG (although I want to see a return to the "Killteam" part of the title!), but I would like more fantasy themes or themes with a possible fantasy interpretation.

The scoreboard really persuades me to contribute: I've clawed my way up the rankings and plan to stay there!

Now, back to my competition entry...

R.

part of my response for WSG #14 "Forced Feedback":


I've really been enjoying it, as it's an assignment, it's focused, it's got a time limit. the topics are a challenge, not only to compose/design a sketch, but also to push my knowledge of things I'm less familiar with (Dark Eldar) as well as my general skills. It's pushed me to start a new digital painting (Galaxy far, far away).

I think the topics I like are a different animal than the topics that I do well on.

e.g. I really like the Dark Eldar topic and I'm sketching up some more for it, even now: the idea of redesigning an army is a very big topic, especially with an army that has been so neglected as Dark Eldar. most of the units need to be revised, the general aesthetic needs to be fixed, the overall tactics should be revisited... etc.

however, I feel that I do well with the ones that allow a more narrative sketch (Daemonhosts, etc) there's less work involved and I can get to the actual drawing faster.

I wouldn't mind doing fantasy as well, my biggest caveat would be this: please have mercy on us: if you do a big topic like "Vampire Counts 2.0" PLEASE give us two weeks. I know so very little of all the fantasy topics that research will be required.

KWSG #14- Feedback is a gift?

I happen to like very broad topics that allow me to tell a story with the drawing in the 40K universe. The more specific the breif, the less it is like a free wheeling sketch and the more like an assignment. Of course, I realize I am the minority, so sprinkling in some broad topics with more specific topics is great.

I really liked the idea of KWSG #12, but personally had a hard time executing. That is totally fine by me. Not every topic will speak to everyone, and that is also fine.

I think there is a great opportunity to team witht he BL Forums to create cross-site collaboration. You will notice I talk about this in my topics entry. The BL write stuff, the Illuminatus draw stuff? Sounds like an easy opportunity for BL peeps to write something and the Illuminatus peeps to draw somethign to go with it. Could be fun.

Also part of WSG #14"Forced Feedback" commenting~

Wsg really is a great opportunity to draw new stuff, and I hope it helps me to compose new ideas faster than I managed to do so in averaged. And when it comes to a specific topic, yes I really agree with Striogi here:

I'm with Easy E about the broad topics; That they bring more space to sketch around, and show your own style.

Situations, I like creating characters and putting them on different situations. Deamonhost was fun and redesigning dark eldars have so far been the interesting one of the assignments (and the toughes of them).

WSG#14

I personally prefer subjects that deviate from the overdone space marine topics, much like the demonhost topic.

So maybe ones that are a bit more open to interpretation.

I would also like to see subjects that can be taken from a xenos point of view.

Just my two pence worth.

Calamity.

Overall I think the titles that we've had so far are all very good. There'll always be a few where not so many peeps are inspired but overall I think there's been a good turn out.

Also, I reckon the briefs shouldn't be too tight; the should allow for quite a bit of freedom whilst still retaining the original idea.

WSG #14

(Huh, it's sunday already, here did the week vanish?)

This whole idea is great. Thanks to WSG I have lately drawn subjects that I wouldn't have come up with on my own. Thus accomplished week's challenge is feels more rewarding than my averages doodles. :)
And I hardly ever scribble anything related to WH Fantasy Battles nowadays, so strictly whfb-themes occasionally would be invigorating.

*sets off now*

[KTM14]

I think a problem with sketch topics which are part of a specific subject, but are very broad within that subject could be broken down into smaller segments, Dark Eldar being the obvious example, it would be much more satisfying to have, for example, Wk 1 Dark Eldar Troopers, Wk 2 Dark Eldar Elites & Characters, Wk 3 Dark Eldar Vehicles, this would allow us to be much more thorough & specific in our explorations of each. That said, I personally think that 'redesign a race' is far too broad & detailed for a weekly sketch group anyway, that is much more fitting for a longer-term group project., or even a contest. I must say I find the other extreme (a highly focused topic like 'Think of the children!') to be frustrating, it's hard to expand on things so specific as 'Imperium Kids' Cartoons' without quite a bit of research. I generally do a bit of research on my sketches anyway, but it seems very fiddly & awkward when it isn't expanded on outside a couple of novels (that I haven't read).

Overall though, it is great fun to kick ideas about & play with established tropes, & I can see how tricky it can be to come up with sensible, balanced topics. I think Mol has done a good job of setting ones that are both serious & fun. It would be nice to see more KTM ideas expanded into fully developed art pieces, but since I've hardly been leading by example there isn't uch I can say on that front.

I shall from now on use the abbreviation KTM (Kill Team Mission) to refer to any specific topic. WSG is accurate but not much fun.

(WSG #14 *late entry*)


Right ive had all this on my mind for a while and didnt wanna rush it....


I think the weekly sketch group serves its purpose quite well in that it does get us all producing, even if the carrot is points relating to bragging rights, but obviously its more than that to the majority of people (although it seems some people love those points :P). I know that mol has had trouble with us arty types in the past commiting to work but never finishing, and the old saying of "practice makes perfect" couldn't be more true. Drawing is an exercise like any other and the more we do it the better, quicker and more confident everyone will get, in other words its a damn good way of raising the standard of work for everyone on this board. Also its quick and temporary nature lends well for people of all skill degrees to participate.

There is incredible potential of the WSG evolution. Aspects of this have already been established at creating a conceptual team, of which the sketches seem to almost walk hand in hand with breif to create a start point of whole projects. I find that amazing and im glad there is talk of expanding that area. Its like we're not just a art forum, but a 40k Design Team. So i hope people realise what potential of the mechanisation of all us arty types and the amount of visual product we create weekly can contribute much greater projects.

This brings me onto my next topic. I know people are apart of other forums and etc (hence the boarding party section) but how about collaborating with other forums to make a fanzine and/or bolster our newsletter exposure? We create enough aesthetic material that could be put to use, and members like mol are fluff extrordinares and we all have fingers in other pies apart from our art, so i guess we could collab to make a mag. Just an idea i suppose, and if it did happen i wouldn't want it inpacting the WSG too much.

Topics are topics, and mol has done them fine. Its like if you really dont like them..... you dont have to participate, unless you really want the points...

I fear for WSG 2010 cycle, people may be put off once all their hard work of submitting work comes to the end and the leaderboard is rebooted. I fear that the sole incentive of competition could take over later on, unless there is another aspect of the WSG, like the one i mentioned above. By submitting work to the WSG you more likely to get featured in the monthly mag and your talents and showcased to the whole interwebs, maybe bringing commissions aplenty. Thus everyone posts and work like as much as possible and mol has a fine selection of work to put together with a magazine team along with fluff articles!

I agree with Birdie actually and would like to put across another veiw to why the WSG could be a bit of a let down later on.

The 1 point inncentive to add work in to earlier weeks is (IMO) not enough to encourage late entrants to start submitting to the WSG THIS year. As they will never be able to catch up to the likes of Schwager and Striogi. I know there is little we can do as it would then be unfair to in-a-way 'punish' the leaders simply because they are leaders. But it limits the amount of new blood getting through. I myself am always waiting in hopes that the leaders will be late one week, getting me 1point ever closer. but these behemoths of art never seem to slow down (to their credit). I do have an idea on how to allow new entrants to get a foothold, however I will post that in the suggestions thread.

I disagree with the WSG 2010 issue though Birdie. I think that a good end of year inncentive this year when viewed by others will (hopefully) encourage more people to join the WSG from the beginning. But an alternative inncentive like being published in a magazine is also a brilliant suggestion. There are people who always and only submit sketches, which is not a problem, but for those who do go the extra mile one week and produce a finished article I think the magazine is a great idea. The only stumbling block there I think is that, thats the point of the competitions that Mol has put on such as the Boarding Party.

I would like to see a clear cut 1st 'prize' for the WSG written up as then people know what they're aiming for.

Good thoughts there Birdie. It deffinatly got my feedback juices flowing.

Darren

Birdie:

I think for my own part, it started out as a challenge, then evolved into a competition, and now it's back to being a challenge. Our motivations can change over time.

However, I really do like your idea. Perhaps teaming not just with other forums, but with whatever general fanzines are out there.

For the 2010 season, I've been wracking my brain over whether I'm going to participate or not - writing and inking the Colada comic takes a lot of my free time that could be dedicated to making the comics that will eventually pay me, but I can't really begrudge that.

maybe next year, I'll set new rules such as 100% digital pieces, so that my digital art improves. who knows.

To that end, I think it might not be a bad idea if Mol made a topic that was 'open ended' for scoring: standard scoring for everyone, but any additional sketches done are added 1 point per sketch up to the current maximum point limit:

e.g:
New topic: Necron 2.0 As the Necron codex desperately needs an update, provide concept sketches, unit art, or illustrations for revamped current units or even new unseen units. 2 points for the first sketch.
Special Rule: We'll Be Back
Any additional sketches beyond the first are 1 point each, to the maximum of (whatever the current points level is)
Thus, the board leader(s) may not gain any more points, but other members may use this to catch up.

I love hearing about people's motivations, so interesting!
As for mine, it started out as a bit of fun and then quickly became a personal challenge. I love the fact that me and Striogi are head to head up there, but it's really more about simply doing 1 sketch for every week of the year to a given subject. A wonderful exercise in discipline ;)

That's a really neat idea, mate... I wholly support it :)

Very interesting idea Striogi, and nice name to go with it!

Schwager, you telling me I'm not disciplined enough!? :D

Just kidding, I know I am. :P

Strigoi, that is a nice idea and I'll definitely give it support! It seems something that'll have to be instituted in the 2010 season. Thank you once again to everyone who takes the time to participate in the WSG and on Illuminatus as a whole!

(Of course,my challenge is finding the time to update the points!)

Some great topics lately. I need to get off my behind and draw something.

Okay, I want to revive the point scoring aspect of the WSG, but I am going to make it a bit different. Instead of a yearly winner, their will be a Monthly winner.

Here is how it will work. If you submit a drawing during the week of the topic, you earn 5 points. If you submit a topic after the deadline for the week you earn 2 if it is int eh same month. If you add to an olde rtopic you eanr 1 point. The person with the most point sin a Calendar month wins.

Due dates will go by GMT.

If you have the most points at the end of the month, you will win this banner for your sig:



In the case of a tie for the most points, all winners will earn a banner.

Ah that seems entertaining and competetive. If you can do that and have some free time i encourage you to do it. Go Easy E :D