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Bell of Lost Souls, Warhammer 40k and Fantasy News
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 40k: Breaking with the traditional
Commissar Molotov
Posted: Jun 16 2006, 08:24 PM


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I thought this might be an interesting topic - consider it the 'realism vs charicature' topic I discussed with Aerion and DOGGED's recent comments.

A lot of us are used to a very gritty, gothic, westernised style of 40k. When artists such as Aerion or Seato fiddle with that style, the response isn't always positive. Aerion's drawings have a very cartoon-esque style, whilst Seato is clearly influenced by Japanese manga.

Do such images have a place in 40k? Do they undermine the setting?

What's your opinion on the issue?
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Drakkar Windrider
Posted: Jun 16 2006, 09:40 PM


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I will say this:

One can only look at so many battlefield scenes with the same old tired style GW uses before one starts to ignore the purty pictures and go straight for the fluff.


+P.S: Aerion, I see you've drawn Sanguinius, Lion'El and Ferrus Manus. When will we see His Beardiness Lord Leman Russ? tongue.gif
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Dark Chaplain
Posted: Jun 16 2006, 11:24 PM


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screw russ!! wheres kurze???

anyway, i agree with Drakkar on the other thing, that whilst the GW pictures are nice and dark/gothic and so fitting with the idea of the 40k universe, i think that the work of Seato and Aerion is a refreshing brake from the norm.
Keep it up guys!!
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MIGHTYPanhead
Posted: Jun 16 2006, 11:35 PM


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My opinion?

It has a definite place, but it's not entirely to my taste...

Personally, I prefer realistic pictures, but that's just opinion. To exclude one style because it doesn't "fit" with your views is narrow-minded, and kind of disputes a purpose of art; as a means of expression.

my reflective opinon? Bring on the variety! Clearly people like it, so it can't be a bad thing! smile.gif
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Cpt_Tiberius
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 01:53 AM


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QUOTE
One can only look at so many battlefield scenes with the same old tired style GW uses before one starts to ignore the purty pictures and go straight for the fluff.


See, I have the complete opposite reaction. I'm fed up with Manga for the most part. Not because Anime/manga is inherently bad, it's just that I sick of being inundated by it.
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Commissar Molotov
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 02:04 AM


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I'd agree - manga's the in thing at the moment. We have an endless stream of Dragonball Z/Pokémon-esque programmes here in Britain. I just recently watched Final Fantasy 7: Advent Children and I didn't really engage with it.

I think that manga and the like tends to detract from the realism of the picture, and often the gritty realism is what attracts you me to the picture.
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Captain Seato
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 03:38 AM


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QUOTE (Commissar Molotov @ Jun 17 2006, 02:04 AM)
We have an endless stream of Dragonball Z

That is because Dragonball Z 1) appeals to kids (when edited for content) and 2) has several hundred episodes. Much like Inu Yasha has several hundred episodes. Both also have several movies tied to those stories.

The distinction must be made though, that there are Japanese artists who do use a realistic style, for example, the creators of "Crying Freeman" and "Crusher Joe".
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Commissar Molotov
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 03:40 AM


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I'd be interested to see examples of their work, Seato. smile.gif
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nitpicker
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 05:16 AM


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QUOTE
Do such images have a place in 40k? Do they undermine the setting?


Do they have a place? Yes art has been and is different all over the world today and well be 38'000 years from now. Take the U.M company banner for the third company i think. It is in my opinion an awful piece since the fluff Say's space marine banner's are not only holy relic's but things of great beauty that banner looks like something i drew and i can barely draw stick person's straight.

I like aerion's pics i find them a lot less garish and busy then G.W art which overdoses on detail in a lot of there art.
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Captain Seato
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 06:06 AM


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QUOTE (Commissar Molotov @ Jun 17 2006, 03:40 AM)
I'd be interested to see examples of their work, Seato. smile.gif

Some examples from "Crying Freeman"

* * *

One example of Yoshikazu Yasuhiko's "Crusher Joe" (it must be noted that in my cursory search of this one, mostly images from the anime showed up).

An example of the artist's work on "MS Gundam"

* * *

Many of the better anime titles tend to have more 'normal' bodies and little to none of the "chibi" factor. Also, there is a growing trend among newer anime to stick closer to realistic bodies and facial structure. "Vision of Escaflowne", "Macross Plus", "Macross Zero", "Sentou Yousei Yukikaze", "Trinity Blood", Blood+", "Mezzo" and "Karas" to name a few.
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=][=Nine Breaker=][=
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 07:21 AM


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The manga style artwork...I like it, and it certainly has it's place. However, I'm not a fan of it being used for 40k or GW in general. The GW stuff is known for its "realistic grimness". the manga style drawing just doesn't pull it off that well in my opinion. However, I don't like a lot of this new 40k art popping up either, with all the trillions of tiny details and such all over the place. Personally, I prefer the art from 3rd Ed. by a large margin.
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Flame of Udun
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 09:40 AM


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Personally I think it all has a place. I love Aerion's work and I think Seato's work is really good, but I do agree that there is quite an abundance of manga/anime art out there and that it can often feel repetetive and over done. However, like all things, if done well it looks great. Personally my favourite manga artists are Kenichi Sonoda (famous for Gunsmith cats and Cannon God Exaxxion), Kazuo Koike (Lone Wolf and Cub, Craying Freeman and Samurai Executioner) and Masamune Shirow (Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell). I'd love to see a shirow take on an Space marine dreadnought!
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Commissar Molotov
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 03:49 PM


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(Aerion, I don't mean to personalise this - I'm not saying this is your work vs the GW orthodoxy, but yours is a good example.)

This and this are extracts from Aerion's comic, 'Farewell Sister'.

This is a drawing from Codex: Witch-hunters.

Is one truly 'better' than the other? They both deal with the same content in different ways, and appeal to those of different tastes.
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Cpt_Tiberius
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 03:56 PM


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QUOTE
Personally my favourite manga artists are Kenichi Sonoda (famous for Gunsmith cats and Cannon God Exaxxion), Kazuo Koike (Lone Wolf and Cub, Craying Freeman and Samurai Executioner) and Masamune Shirow (Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell). I'd love to see a shirow take on an Space marine dreadnought!


All of these guys are excellent. smile.gif I've been a huge Shirow fan since they first published Appleseed over here back in the late 80's. I too would love to see him do a dread, though I think a defiler would be more up his alley since it looks like a spider. tongue.gif

Here is a guy who is a perfect example of good manga art that is more realistic.

Hiroaki Samura

His series "Blade of the Immortal" is one of the best written and most beautiful comics to look at I've ever ran across. I highly reccomend checking out the series. If your interested they sell the collected editions at most Barnes & Nobles stores.


p.s. For you Masamune Shirow fans I ran across this news story you might find interesting...

news story

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=][=Nine Breaker=][=
Posted: Jun 17 2006, 04:54 PM


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QUOTE (Commissar Molotov @ Jun 17 2006, 03:49 PM)
(Aerion, I don't mean to personalise this - I'm not saying this is your work vs the GW orthodoxy, but yours is a good example.)

This and this are extracts from Aerion's comic, 'Farewell Sister'.

This is a drawing from Codex: Witch-hunters.

Is one truly 'better' than the other? They both deal with the same content in different ways, and appeal to those of different tastes.

I'd say, no, one isn't better than the other. I just think that the way GW does their art suits the game better. That's just an opinion however, and I could certainly see somebody who enjoys the manga style drawings as much as or more than the western style GW has going.
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