Title: Any news on new Necron stuff?
Darthvegeta800 - August 29, 2007 07:34 PM (GMT)
Are there ANY new Necron releases planned?
A new Necron lord? A new unit? Anything?
Because my younger brother is feeling VERY neglected.. .and rightfully so. The only good thing the Necrons got in years was Dark Crusade :P
Insane Psychopath - August 29, 2007 07:52 PM (GMT)
There a new Necron lord coming out for Apoclypse with staff of light & Orb I belive.
Other than that I just hear word that you "might" seen a new codex in 2008. But if this is true then it is rumour to be a update like Tau as in a quick one with a new unit or two.
Also as part these rumour been hearing.
- Necrons loss WBB & get feel no pain
- Loss phase out
- Immortals move 2d6
It a bit early to really say as GW are keeping there mouths keep shut on new stuff. Only new thing will be talk about right now will be Orks since there due out for Dec-early Jan.
Keep a eye out though
Darthvegeta800 - August 29, 2007 10:30 PM (GMT)
Lose phase out Oo;
i take it they'll get handycaps in other ways than?
Khargoth - August 30, 2007 03:22 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Darthvegeta800 @ Aug 29 2007, 10:30 PM)|
| Lose phase out Oo;|
i take it they'll get handycaps in other ways than?
No WBB. I smell a BS crybaby rumour on that one.
I'm not going to go on an angry rant here, but if GW does drop that, it's gonna be the last straw for me. WBB is an extremely characterful rule, and in my honest opinion a fair one. The people who whinge and complain about it are the ones who are too stupid to figure out how to defeat armies optimised to their strengths (I'm saying that because it's not powerlisting, but it's smart). The Necron Codex is fine. Just like the Tau one. I wish GW would stop sitting on it's hands by tinkering with recent armies and get on with ones that actually need work, like Orks, Dark Eldar and Imperial Guard. I say IG because they actually do need a tinker, considering the number of extra Doctrines, formalised variant lists and the like that have popped up since the Codex release. An 'expansion' Codex would work really well, something like "Codex: Regiments of the Imperium".
Back on topic, if they do nerf back the Necrons' resilience, it'll be all the proof that I need that GW simply caters to the loudmouth tactical retards, and that'll be it. Games Workshop nevermore.
blackcell8 - August 30, 2007 12:50 PM (GMT)
If GW nerf the Necrons, and the Tau Empire, before even doing Dark Eldar, I will almost certianly give up 40K.
Thankfully, WFB has got used to the way they work, and thank all things holy that Dicky doesn't touch the Specialist Games.
No We'll Be Back? Well, Feel No Pain is an alright substitue, I guess, but thats not really coming back to life as it were, is it?
Darthvegeta800 - August 31, 2007 01:39 PM (GMT)
Necrons are in dire need of more units. And preferably a special Necron Lord on top.
In Battlefleet Gothic they need to be tuned down as they're absurdly unbalanced. But BFG is hardly supported by Gamesworkshop.
tkdarktrooper - September 7, 2007 07:25 PM (GMT)
I would love to see a low level HQ model. More troops would be cool, but I don't care either way FNP replacing WBB. I just make the roll the same turn they go down.
Utsujin - September 8, 2007 12:36 PM (GMT)
Yea, for the most part, I've been staying away from 40k and playing BFG and more Fantasy. BFG for the most part is one of the most balanced games I seen. Necrons probably are the most powerful, but then again it comes at a point cost, and with enough firepower you can cripple a ship no problem, and plus all the extra rules, it makes for a decently balanced list.
Necrons don't need anything new, how about another troop choice of Necron WARRIORS? Maybe make flayed ones 0-2 Troop choice, and have another elite in there. Then again, how can you add to the undead type anyway? I think their list is fine as is.
Khargoth - September 10, 2007 07:43 AM (GMT)
I had an idea for some 'new' Necron stuff. Perhaps add some heavier assault units, as apart from the Monolith, the 'crons don't really have much in the 'heavy' category. Possibly dreadnought-sized Tomb Spyders designed for direct combat instead of repair, possibly toting a pair of Gauss Cannons.
Another idea was 'harvester' units, one of which I saw in the Animatrix that was eerily Necron-esque. Think of a Monolith that floats considerably higher above the ground. However, instead of guns it uses hundreds of mechanical tenticles to grab hapless infantry and feed into it's reactor. Fluff has mentioned 'soulforges' which convert an entire being, life-force and all, into pure energy, and store it. I can imagine the Necrons using mobile versions during their Red Harvests. Probably something with 30-odd Attacks. Make it WS1, and that it's trying to grab targets, not hit them. Once it's successfully 'hit' a number of times equal to the target's Strength, that's it baby, you're ensnared and on an express-trip out of the land of the living. For example, a Space Marine Commander is only St4, and whilst the tendrils will have a hard time getting ahold of him (WS5), once four have got him he's dead, no To Wound or Armour/Invul Saves. Models immune to Instant Death would suffer D3 wounds instead, essentially being hurt badly, but tough enough to break free and fall out of the forge before being totally destroyed.
I think something like that would be brilliant for Apocalypse.
Darthvegeta800 - September 10, 2007 07:52 AM (GMT)
Btw what's with darktroopers quote? That Abaddon got the Planetkiller from the Deceiver, while fluff states it was made in the Warp?
Khargoth - September 10, 2007 09:12 AM (GMT)
Misinterpreted fluff methinks. He probably thinks that the Planet Killer is a Talisman of Vaul, and Codex: Necrons makes mention of the Deciever manipulating the Gothic War to ensure that they were in the hands of Chaos. Not really the Necron's best interests, but better interests than letting the Eldar get them back, or in the hands of those less partial to the Eldar.
As it is, the Talismans of Vaul are the Blackstone Fortresses. Planet Killer was probably built using technology stolen from them, seeing as the Blackstone Fortressess use a similar energy weapon to obliterate the surface of a planet.
Another possibility that occured to me is that the Planet Killer might be the Nightbringer's personal vessel. The Nightbringer transferred a considerable portion of its immense power to it, turning it into one of the Necron's most powerful weapons. It was banished into the Warp just before the Nightbringer entered stasis. Considering that the Nightbringer isn't controlling it, it's probably much less powerful, only capable of destroying individual planets, instead of entire star systems.
Insane Psychopath - September 25, 2007 05:34 PM (GMT)
A little bit of a update.
Been hearing from folk went to GD UK & also my store manger that you can exspect Necrons in 2008. Not much has been said on rule front to confirmed what what. But exspect them in 2008, also Brim being hinting there release as well.
So 2008 exspect Orks, Daemons, Necrons.... rest I have no idea... for time being :thumb:
Khargoth - September 26, 2007 11:14 AM (GMT)
We've heard that We'll Be Back! will be replaced by Feel No Pain, which is a bit of a pain in the butt because the Ressurection Orb will either be nerfed, get a total re-write in rules, or become even more difficult to understand rules-wise. Plus using FnP means a roll for each incoming wound, instead of for each dead model. I'm not sure, I'm just nervous, GW was very heavy-handed in 'fixing' Codex: CSM, and the Necrons are another target of 'broken' and complicated rules claims.
However, so much good could be made with the new Codex. Leave the old stuff alone! Expand! Give us more choice, I wanna see 'harvester' units! Plastic Immortals! Variants on standard Necrons based on tomb-worlds! Similar to 'traits' but far more indirect. Stuff like making them immune to Psychic powers, being able to give Phase Shifters to more than just the Lord and Wraiths, or what about CC Tomb Worlds that use Flayed Ones as Troops?
IronWinds - September 26, 2007 02:29 PM (GMT)
Necrons rules are a little complicated. They were my first army and I started them when they first came out. Try to understand someone who just started the game and barely understands the rules trying to explain how WBB or a monolith works to a bunch of marine players.
WBB replaced by FnP is just an attempt to bring everything together under 4th. I'm not even talking about their recent change in making everything so simple that children can understand it. I'm referring to centralizing everything under 4th edition, which wasn't a bad idea. Instead of every unit in the game having a special rule they created the universal special rules to bring them all together. I kind of saw WBB being replaced by FnP, it was bound to happen and it helps the crons more than it hurts them.
The monolith is something that needs a fixing. Does tank hunter work against it :huh: ? Does a powerfist :huh: ? The portal is something they need to keep though, without it Necrons are not really necrons. However I could do with a cheaper monolith that doesn't have as many special rules for its armor. Keep it simple, armor 14... with holo shields would do, or make it similar to venerable. Or just armor 14, and less than 200pts.
They do need a cheaper HQ though. I always liked the idea of a tomb guardian. Like a tomb spyder type HQ that oversees the tombs while the necrons sleep. It would make for a nice cheap HQ. Have it similar to your standard tomb spyder, but move faster, have higher I, and with better rules for helping the necrons repair. Its possible for 80pts or less. Ah idea came to my head, if FnP is replacing WBB, why not have tomb spyders give necrons nearby(6") immunity to insta-death(and weapons double your toughness for FnP) similar to the nids new rules. Keeps things relatively simple and makes sense.
Darthvegeta800 - September 26, 2007 04:41 PM (GMT)
Those are actually quite good ideas Ironwinds.
Khargoth - September 27, 2007 03:01 AM (GMT)
I also started off with Necrons and 'got' their rules pretty quickly, so much so that I gave pointers to Marine players on my weaknessess, just to shut up their whingeing (I started playing 40k in that 'aftershock' period when the Necrons had just been released and it seemed 90% of players couldn't figure out how to beat them).
He does raise some good points. However, the confusion over the Monolith is because people seem to think their army has some kind of special exception. The FAQ for the Monolith mostly consisted of "does x unit get y bonus against the Monolith?" and the answer is always no. I'd have thought people would have gotten the point by now. It's a cool rule, and it's about the only thing that really justifies the Monolith's pricetag.
The easiest way to topple a Monolith is to hit it with a Dreadnought, or even Terminators. You don't need 2D6 for damage when you're strength 8-10. 5 St10 attacks on the charge with a Dread, you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least one penetrating hit.
IronWinds, your problem with the 'insta-kill' invulnerability for Tomb Spyders is that the Necron Lord and Tomb Spyders are the only units in the Necron army that actually have more than one wound (not including C'tan), so Insta-kill isn't really a big worry. That was my point, all the stuff that benefits WBB like Res Orbs and Tomb Spyders are hard to transfer over to FnP, because stuff like the Res Orb and Tomb Spyders add exceptions and special conditions to the rule, which kinda defeats the purpose of porting it over to a 'standardised' rule...
Also, the special rules for Monoliths in Apocalypse give a bonus to WBB, which leads me to believe they aren't getting rid of it, unless they've thrown that 'planning Codicies for the future' trend out the window.
Darthvegeta800 - September 27, 2007 07:03 AM (GMT)
As for new units... a likely candidate is another C'tan. (regretfully as i'm not a big fan of them)
IronWinds - September 27, 2007 03:36 PM (GMT)
|The easiest way to topple a Monolith is to hit it with a Dreadnought, or even Terminators. You don't need 2D6 for damage when you're strength 8-10. 5 St10 attacks on the charge with a Dread, you're pretty much guaranteed to get at least one penetrating hit.|
Ah, but does a powerfist's doubling of strength actually get a bonus against the monoltih, because in the most recent faqs that I have read the monolith ignores things that boost strength as well, including tank hunter and Furious Charge. I would imagine that includes power fists as well, but I haven't read anything on it yet.
|ronWinds, your problem with the 'insta-kill' invulnerability for Tomb Spyders is that the Necron Lord and Tomb Spyders are the only units in the Necron army that actually have more than one wound (not including C'tan), so Insta-kill isn't really a big worry. |
I meant for the WBB or FnP purposes. With both a weapon that is double the toughness ignores the FnP save. The Tomb Spyder would allow them to still make the roll is what I was saying.
Mutt-Man! - September 28, 2007 08:51 PM (GMT)
Just like Tyranids inducting new species and genes into their bio-mass structure. Biovores:Orks, Tyrant Guard:Marines, Zoanthrope:Eldar
Necrons sort of follow this sort of thing. Their Pariahs are new. Human-aged new. So I probly think we'll be seeing other inducted races, perhaps the god-less Tau inducted in some way? Who knows. I just know they need to toss their Flayed ones in troop choice and add a new elite and fast attack unit.
Khargoth - October 1, 2007 07:09 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (IronWinds @ Sep 27 2007, 03:36 PM)|
| I meant for the WBB or FnP purposes. With both a weapon that is double the toughness ignores the FnP save. The Tomb Spyder would allow them to still make the roll is what I was saying. |
Well, that kinda negates the whole purpose. Introducing FnP is apparantly simpler than We'll be Back, but if we introduce variables like the Res Orb and Tomb Spyders, it's pretty much exactly as complicated as We'll Be Back anyway...
I'm thinking of doing that 'flying soulforge' that I talked about earlier, and just convert a Monolith for it. Essentially a flying factory, with a massive portal on the bottom, and hundreds of mecha-tenticles surrounding the portal. If my opponent doesn't like my rules for it I can just use is as a badass Monolith. Tenticles = Flux Arc Projectors, the 'forge' becomes the Monolith Portal, and I'll probably have some kind of crysal reactor on the top, which can be used for the Particle Whip. Sweet!
IronWinds - October 1, 2007 04:15 PM (GMT)
| Well, that kinda negates the whole purpose. Introducing FnP is apparantly simpler than We'll be Back, but if we introduce variables like the Res Orb and Tomb Spyders, it's pretty much exactly as complicated as We'll Be Back anyway...|
Not really, as of now WBB has almost a page of rules, and the res orb is not the complicated part of WBB. The tomb guardian idea I had would just come with a res orb as standard wargear, but basically just be a better tomb spyder. The other tomb spyders would loose the bonuses they now grant to WBB as it wouldn't be needed with FnP.
The new rule would be quite simple.
"Necrons have Feel No Pain as described in the 40k rulebook on page___, in the event a resurrection orb is within __ inches the necron model is allowed to make the feel no pain save regardless of whether it was attacked by a ranged weapon that is double its toughness, or attacked with a close combat weapon that ignores saves."
IMO the complicated part of WBB is not the save, or the res orb, but the fact that the save isn't made till the next turn and that you have undead models all over the field waiting to repair. Having inactive models scattered across the field causes all sorts of problems, mainly movement and assaults, and you know someone is going to/probably already has tried to claim that dead necrons can be used as cover by scarabs <_< . Not only that but then you have to make sure the necron is within 6" of another model of the same type... and it is possible for necrons to repair/join into a unit besides the one they started in... especially if tomb spyders are being used. Then there are leadership problems... do dead necrons count as alive or dead when determining if a unit is above half strength, received enough casualties to take a Ld test, one or lost the close combat, ect. We all know the answers, but there has to be that much more clarification anyways which means even more rules. Then you also have victory points problems, and more special rules for their victory points because units are falling below half strength then going above it again on a regular basis. There is also the case when members of a unit might be alive but now apart of another unit so the ten man squad that should be at half strength is below, and the 20 man squad that received the 10 man's extra man is aobve half strength when it should be below. Theres 180 victory point difference because one model switched units. In addition every new necron player wants to, and believes they can/should be able to make WBB roles after the last turn is over, but before victory points are decided to figure out the fates of all the WBB models scattering the battlefield for victory points purposes. I've had to explain that one to several people.
FnP, and Inv FnP(for res orbs) saves would be a whole lot easier, and avoid all that unnecessary confusion while keeping the necron armie's unique feel.
The soulforge sounds like a great idea, and makes a lot of sense considering some of their epic models are similar to that.
Mutt-Man! - October 2, 2007 07:18 AM (GMT)
Feel No Pain could easily be saved to replace WBB stuff. All you gotta do is Extend the res orb distance a little and various other jinks to the rules surrounding it and it should be good as gold (or living metal).
Hopefully they clear more things then they cause with their new codex. In the year 2008 I assume. (If they're chain-releasing codexes, they should get them soon enough!)