need help with a tournament list, codex chaos or codex ultrasmurfs?

y'ello, fellow sons of the IVth legion.

the 20th of july i'll be participating in a tournament, and wonder what codex i should use.

codex chaos list:

Lord with MoK, Power Fist, Combi-Plasma and Personal icon.

Huron Blackheart.

5 Terminator Champions, 1 with Pair of Lightning Claws, 2 with Combi-Meltas and Chainfists, 1 with Combi-Flamer and Lightning Claw, and 1 with Combi-Plasma and Power Weapon.

10 Plague Marines with 2 Plasma Guns and Champion with Power Fist.

- the plague marines are my objective holders.

- my lord rides into battle with this squad:

9 Chaos Marines with Flamer and Champion with Power Weapon and Meltabombs.

Rhino with Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcer and Dozer Blade.

10 Khorne Berzerkers with 2 Plasma Pistols and Champion with Plasma pistol and Power Fist.

Rhino with Daemonic Possession, Havoc Launcher and Dozer Blade.

- Huron rides with these guys:

9 Chaos Marines with Flamer and Champion with Power Weapon.

Rhino with Daemonic Possession and additional Combi-Bolter.

10 Chaos Marines with 2 Plasma Pistols and Champion with Power Weapon.

Chaos Rhino with Daemonic Possession and additional Combi-Bolter.

Obliterator.


Loyalist codex list:

Chapter Master with Artificier Armour, Combi-Plasma, Power Fist and Digital Weapons.

Vulkan He'Stan. Huron Blackheart will count as this guy.

5 Terminators with 2 Chainfists and Heavy Flamer.

Dreadnought with Extra Armour, Missile Launcher and Twin-linked Autocannon.

Dreadnought with Extra Armour, Heavy Flamer and Plasma Cannon.

Tactical Squad with Missile Launcher, Flamer and Sergeant with Power Fist.

Rhino with Extra Armour, additional Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade.

Tactical Squad with Heavy Bolter, Meltagun and Sergeant with Combi-Melta.

Rhino with Extra Armour, additional Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade.

Assault Squad with Plasma Pistol, Flamer and Sergeant with Power Weapon.

Drop Pod with Locator Beacon.

Assault Squad with Plasma Pistol, Flamer and Sergeant with Power Weapon.

Drop Pod.

Predator with Sponson Lascannons, Extra Armour, Storm Bolter and Dozer Blade.

- i think we may be playing with 6th edition rules, and if it's true that there's a minimum 25% troops, i'll ditch the predator and add another tactical squad instead.

worth mentioning, i'm not after the first place in the tournament. i play background heavy, and that's the way i like it.

and no idiotic comments like "why do you take x? you should spam y instead!". i ain't got a lot of money, and i sure as hell won't run to the shop and buy a crapload of stuff, just because everybody else uses it.

sorry if i come out awfully defensive, but experience has taught me that you have to be that way in the Warseers army list threads.

For your Chaos list, the squads your HQ ride with number 10 (the berzerkers and PL). It also does not mention what the PM are riding in. So if each are in Rhinos (like the Berzerker section states) one man cult troop is going to have to go.

In regards to which list...I kind of like both but I am digging the Loyalist one. I just like the Drop Pods with assault troops armed with flamers. Then there is Vulklan as well who makes such weapons a bit better. I had liked the idea before for a drop pod army led by Vulkan (who I was going to pair with either Sicarius or Kantor) armed with flame based and melta based weapons.

Ahhh, just imagine such an army descending from the sky, their drop pods landing within the enemy lines, inches away from the enemy. then when the hatch doors open the enemy army is lit up and if the dice hold out most things won't survive.

ehm, huron and the chaos lord ride with a 9-man squad each, while the plague marines have no rhino because their job is to secure any objectives near my deployment zone.

I gotcha. When I saw an entry and bullet points listed under it I thought that was included in the unit.

Just a format issue got me there. I do still stand by the loyalist list. Also, the only thing I would find worrisome are enemies who will be using a number of tanks. Something to consider.

I personally am a fan of a "mobile wall" type of rhino. The dozerblades, DP, havoc launcher don't really do it for me. It seems like it's too much stuff to load onto an arm 11 tank.

perhaps you can explain why you like your rhinos like this so I can understand your reasoning? ^.^

If you want to take it to the tournament, I only suggest you playtest the CRAP out of it. you can make little changes here and there and playtest those too. list mongering only helps you so much, whereas having a full command of the capabilities and weaknesses of your units is a much more valuable tool.

In the future perhaps you can try to ditch the expensive rhino upgrades, give them armor, and maybe squeeze another rhino for the nurgle marines?

Just some suggestions. I hope it wasn't a "why do you take X, you should spam Y instead" comment.

Happy hunting!

deathmonkeymarine: are you talking about the chaos list, the loyalist list, or both lists?

basically, because that's the way i've assembled them, and i play background heavy. fluff is ALWAYS first, competion ability goes second for me.

what do you mean with give them armour? all the rhinos already have daemonic possession in the chaos list, and all rhinos have extra armour in the loyalist list.

Hushrong: yeah, tanks got me a bit worried as well.

I was talking about the chaos list, yes.

extra armor is cheaper than DP. If you play a rhino with JUST extra armor, you aren't too worried about shooting, heck, you aren't worried about the tank at all. The mobile wall strategy is so effective because it's so cheap(expendable) and so useful.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with that strategy...
I could try to explain it if you'd like. =D

wait, extra armour downgrades a crew stunned to a crew shaken, while daemonic possession ignores them altogheter and is only 5 points more. although now i realised they get a worse Ballistic Skill and passengers are still affected by shaken and stunned.

i'm thinking about downgrading the rhinos, so i'll post two revised list later.

Edit: yeah, i now the mobile wall strategy. i've never been able to do it myself, since i ave no vehicles assembled, and strangely enough no-one has ever done it against me.

Yea. It's vital for mechanized armies. when you have fewer models than your opponent you have to use them more efficiently. This is why player skill and knowledge of one's army is very important.

A favorite mobile wall strategy of mine is to dive into the enemy army(usually an earth army) and divide it at around the 1/3 mark.

this allows me to apply the full force of my army on 1/3 of theirs, while they, in turn, only get to kill a couple of cheap rhinos.

you end the exchange by losing 1/5 and them losing 1/3 AND you're closer to the rest of their army.

this is why mech can be so good, because the game is won and lost in the movement phase. (I LOVE air armies)

as always, playtest it and see what you like. it's YOUR army after all ^.^

okay, here's two revised lists:

loyalist one:

Chapter master with artificier armour, power fist and combi-plasma.

vulkan he'stan.

terminator squad with 2 chainfists and heavy flamer.

dreadnought with extra armour, twin-linked autocannon and missile launcher.

dreadnought with extra armour, plasma cannon and heavy flamer.

tactical squad with missile launcher, meltagun and sergeant with combi-melta.

rhino with extra armour.

tactical squad with lascannon, flamer and sergeant with power fist.

rhino with extra armour.

tactical squad with lascannon, meltagun and sergeant with power fist.

rhino with extra armour.

assault squad with plasma pistol, flamer and sergeant with power weapon.

rhino with extra armour.

predator with extra armour, sponson lascannons and storm bolter.


chaos list:

lord with mark of khorne, power fist, combi-plasma and personal icon.

huron blackheart.

4 terminator champions; 1 with pair of lightning claws, and 3 with combi-meltas and chainfists.

10 chaos marines with 2 meltaguns and champion with combi-melta.

rhino with daemonic possession.

9 chaos marines with plasma gun and champion with power fist and plasma pistol.

rhino with daemonic possession.

8 khorne berzerkers with 2 plasma pistols and champion with power fist and plasma pistol.

rhino with daemonic possession.

10 chaos marines wit 2 meltaguns and champion with power weapon.

rhino with daemonic possession.

7 plague marines with 2 plasma guns and champion with power fist.

obliterator.

obliterator.

ok, does anybody have any comment or question?

anything?

so far i'm leaning towards the chaos list, since it would be more wysiwyg, and it would be a proper farewell of the codex since the 6th edition book isn't that far away hopefully.

Chaos List mate!!

as you said 'a proppa send off for the codex'

the loyalist list does look pretty decent though!

if you use the chaos list let us know how you think huron works (might not be relavent with a new codex) as i don't like the mini or his fluff. His rules seems ok though...

thanks mate, chaos list it is then.

i bought huron when all stores were selling off their old metal miniatures when failcast was introduced.

i've kit-bashed him a little, given him a chaos marine power sword and a chaos sorcerer backpack.