Dropped in to Steve at Bob Jane Haberfield for some new tires on the weekend. I have been going to this place for years now, and as usual, the service was second to none.

What i required was a replacement for my Preceda's which were well below par following a day at Wakefield. I have always been happy with the Preceda's (http://forum.altezzaclub.org.au/index.php?showtopic=411) so i was thinking Preceda 2's.

However, as i explained to Steve, i use my car less now, and i'm doing my freeway miles, so I was willing to sacrifice some tire life for more grip. Steve was able to do the Preceda 2's for me for $30 each less than the Preceda 1's had cost me, however he had another proposition - a 17/225 set of Michelin Pilot Primacy's which had travelled a few kms. He offered them to me for half their new price, so i couldn't say no!

The Pilot Primacy is the tire underneath the Pilot Sport - same (soft) compound, but not machined on the inside. They are standard fitment on the S model Audi's, and it shows - it's very much a Gran Touring tire. Overall, i'm very happy with the purchase, not only because of the great price, but because they are significantly better than the Preceda's in a number of ways:

- FAR superior lateral grip, both wet and dry. eg. I can exit sharp second gear corners that would normally have the Preceda's at the limit of grip, but with the Primacy there is no activity from the diff, just grip;
- Superior straight line, the steering feedback has improved here also with less 'dead zone' on the centreline;
- FAR superior comfort, this was a BIG surprise. Noise is lower, and bump soak is far better.

The trade off is that they will probably not last as long as the Preceda's, although as i use the car less now, this is acceptable. The sidewall is probably not as stiff as the Preceda's, and as such, i would say these tires would probably not be as good on the track. However they are definitely grippier, and as they soak up the bumps better, i have found them noticeably quicker on some of my favourite B roads then the Preceda's as they reduce the bump steer. It's night and day - i can see where the additional cost goes with these tires. That said, i'm not sure i would be willing to shell out full price for these in future. But overall, without exception these are the best road tire i have ever driven on.

What sort of $ are you looking at for these? I paid around $350 for Mich pilot sports 5 years ago (215/45 17) and that was a great price.

I would love to get a set of pilots on my 19's when I finally get them!

Hey Dr Jeckl,

Just over $300 ea. fitted with Nitrogen (they were out though, so have to go back to get my Nitrogen), although I was lead to believe that this was a special price.

Interesting, as Brian has just directed me to the Michelin website, which quotes the Primacy as being under the Preceda in performance, and to be fair, the additional cushiness i'm finding with these tires would agree with this, but lateral grip is definitely higher. Which leads me to conclude that the Preceda 2's are that much better than the Preceda's. Still, i'm so happy with the improved ride, and without a great cost in handling. All the more reason to get proper track wheels and rubber for the circuit. I'll report more after the honeymoon phase passes.

Haven't called around, but a quick search on the web seems to suggest that these tires in this profile around $400+ each normally. *shrugs* would be interested to hear if anyone else has been quoted on these.

Also, what are peoples thoughts on running a 225 profile on the stock rims?

Hmm thats pricey for a 17" tyre!!!

I got my pilot sports through John @ Tempe, and he wasn't happy to sell em to me for $350, but that was 5 years ago when 17" rims were big, and 18's were crazy :lol:

Did you find any difference in road noise compared to the original preceda's?

Isn't all that 'Nitrogen benefits' a load of BS in a road car? I understand the principles i.e less expansion and all, but.............

heh heh, the N2 in tires can be a hotly debated topic. I first tried it with my first set of Michelin Preceda's and i did a 5000km road trip on those tires, documented here on the forums. No change in tire pressure at all. That's the thing with Nitrogen, you can load your car up, empty it, tire pressures don't change. Many couriers/truckies swear by it for this reason alone.

$300+ for a tire is expensive, no doubt, but tires are the single most important consumable on the car, and what you put on your car effects acceleration, braking, handling and ride. So i like to put on the best i can afford. Your not the first to mention you can get Pilot Sports for < $400. I think they will have to be next!

Hmmm so tell me don't N2 have special valves also?

Envision this hypothetical situation: What happens if you develop a slow leak due to a nail puncturing your tyre,its 1am on a Sunday morning, and all thats open is the trusty ol Shell servo??

I presume you would just have to put your spare on?

I got around 35 kays out of my sport's and I loved em, just didn't love the price, but as you said the tyres are the fundamentals of a chassis, and the stopping distance between a cheap Chinese import and a top end euro tyre can be 6 8 metres, or more depending on the speed.

I am damn sure I would rather pay an extra $1k for a set of tyres over a cheaper set and stop 4 metres earlier in an emergency braking situation, as those 4 metres can mean a hell of a lot less damage to the front end of my car, or even someone's life!

I don't think you can bring puncturing a tyre into the situation as it a pretty extreme situation and its the case of beggars cant be choosers. He isn't saying that normal air is the root of all evil when it comes to tyres, just that he thinks N2 is a better option that he would happily pay a little more for.

Personally I don't mind using servo pumps checking my tyre pressure every month or so.

ANYWAY, what I meant to get at in the post was that i cant believe you got 35k kms out of pilot sports! I've had pilot preceda 2's for less than 10k kms and there's quite a bit of tyre wear. I'll be happy to get 20k kms on them!

yeah with 2 circuit visits brian haha

He actually didnt state that he went with N2 because it was a better option. I was just curious on how his 'experiences' have been with N2, as I am debating wether or not to get it fitted to my next set of rims.

I had them for close to 3 years, on my honda FWD Accord, that was never really driven that hard, just the occasional fang, definately no track days involved!! I would have gotten 40 kays out of them if i had a cmaber kit on my car, but the inner treads were worn (scrubbed out), while the outer treadblocks still had plenty of life in them

1 day at a track is nearly worth 1 years worth of normal driving! :lol:

Whoa, hold up, waitaminute!
We're all talking at cross purposes here!
By N2 i'm referring to Nitrogen, not a type of tyre!! Methinks here lies the confusion - sorry, my bad.
I always have Nitrogen filling included when i install new tires. Some places charge $6 per tire for the privledge, but when included in the installation costs, who knows? I get metal valve caps too, so hey!
Nitrogen does not suffer the temperature (and subsequently pressure) fluctuations that a normal air fill does. Hence your tires remain at the same pressure for longer, regardless of use.
I had a guy there tell me he swears there is less road noise when he puts Nitrogen in the tires on his 911. *shrugs*

Oops I meant to state Im looking into getting N2 fitted to my next set of Rims & tyres not rims!!!

Hehe I knew what N2 was :D

Not to be overly pedantic but your tyres get filled with Nitrogen, Nitrogen isn't fitted to your tyres.

I've searched and searched but I can't find that old thread on the pros and cons of Nitrogen, it was a great read if just for the huge amounts of anger it produced ;-)

BTW: the atmosphere is already 70% Nitrogen, that's how the arguement started...

Haha well technically that is correct, but don't they also fit N2 valves which have a unique valve, compared to the conventional arrangement?

Hmm I guess you never really know until you try! I'm willing to give it a go ;)

http://forum.altezzaclub.org.au/index.php?showtopic=1513

you mean this one by any chance. Please lets not do it again hahahah

Hi TB2:
I have 225/45/17 on my stock 17x7 rims too. and I found it's more comfortable to ride on.
I had Dunlop Srort Maxx fitted just before Easter this yr when Dunlop was having 15% off sale for this tyre. so paid ~ $280 each from a local Beaurepaires.

I finally decided on this tyre model because I have good experience with the stock Sp9000. (remeber when u saw my car in Coffs Harbour, it has done ~60000km).

Those SP9000 lasted me ~ 71000km
see this thread:
http://forum.altezzaclub.org.au/index.php?showtopic=4236

Just updating this thread now that I have had these tires for some time.

Pros: improved comfort (due to softer sidewall and wider 225 tire), very good dry grip, exceptional/top-notch wet weather grip and resistance to aquaplaning. Nice solid straight-line feel.

Cons: Expensive, v.expensive! (see below). Moderate noise - not noisy, but not as quiet as you would expect at this price. Turn-in/response slightly lower than Preceda. Do not heat cycle well - these tires overheat quickly on the track, and dry grip suffers immensely. I would not recommended these for dry track use.


An interesting note about the Primacy's after my previous comments on pricing. A friend recently was quote on them for his Supra, same size/width; $600/tire! Naturally, he went with the Michelin Preceda 2's at $250/tire (a v.good price). If I come across a good bargin with the Primacy's i will use them again for the road, otherwise I will be trying Preceda 2's next.

$600 per corner is about the price of a Pilot sport, not a preceda?!?!?

Did he get that quote through Bob Jane??!

The michelin pilot sports were the best tyres I have ever had, they had it all! Quite comfortable ride, excellent wet grip, but I never did track my car with these tyres.

the pilot sport are the same tread pattern as the preceda 2, but much softer compound.

Can't say i've ever experienced primacys properly, but Michelin are probably the only tyres i will be buying from now on... aside from rears... they come from the back of the local tyre power at midnight Monday mornings just before the 2nd hand tyre truck comes to collect the scraps :D

Are we talking about 225/45/17 ?

$250 /tyre for Preceda 2 is damn cheap IMO.

What are your thoughts on the Dunlop Sport Maxx ? road noise, grip etc. I was thinking of getting some when I upgrade to 18" rims, as I can get them at a pretty reasonable price @NZD$250 for 225/40.
They got wheels magazine tyre of the year last year didnt they? Also noticed they come standard on the IS250 sport.

I have heard good things from the sport maxx's

By memory is400 run these on his 18" buddyclub rims,and he said he is really happy with them.

Go for it mate!

I have Sport Maxx on for about 13 months now, done ~ 14000kms.
so far I am very happy with the way they performed.
had a very fast run at mountain roads last Sunday. grip very well. I think it's the first time I pushed hard on this set of tyres. very happy

$250NZD for a 225/40/18 is a very good price in my opinion...

Helps when you work in the automotive trade

Just seen the Wheels 2008 Tyre Test article in the June issue. Would seem the sport maxx has been knocked of its perch. But bang for buck you still cant go past them.
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