Title: One for Cliffette
Grim Squeaker - February 3, 2006 09:58 AM (GMT)
For some reason I suspect you'd find this book extremely amusing, being that you are a silly teacher.
Andyr - February 3, 2006 06:14 PM (GMT)
My mum's a fan of that book.
(She's a teacher and did learning support for a while too.)
Eral - February 4, 2006 10:55 AM (GMT)
You know, that book never did anything for me. I realise I'm meant to be target audience, but I just can't be bothered getting upset over adults making grammatical errors.
Adults holding their pens incorrectly, now that shits me.
Grim Squeaker - February 4, 2006 04:21 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Eral @ Feb 4 2006, 10:55 AM)|
| Adults holding their pens incorrectly, now that shits me. |
Heh, I hadn't heard the phrase expressed quite like that before. Gives me the unfortunate image of pens that cause laxative effects.
Drew - February 4, 2006 04:51 PM (GMT)
As a leftie, I feel the need to say that we left-handed types actually do need to hold our pencils differently since we push, rather than pull, the pencil across the paper. All through my childhood, (right handed) teachers were trying to get me to hold my pencil like a right handed person and write like one, too. Neither is possible. I learned that later when I was fortunate enough to have a left handed teacher, but by then the damage was already done.
Bex - February 4, 2006 07:41 PM (GMT)
I think literate adults damn well ought to know how to use apostrophes and such (see link), but I'm right-handed and hold my pen like a lefty. I just checked my penstrokes, and they're a combination of push and pull. I knew right-and-left-handed people held their pens differently, but not why, so thanks for the explanation, Drew. I cannot explain my own pen-holding tendencies, but I have tried to correct myself in the past and each attempt has led to painful hand cramps.http://angryflower.com/aposter.html
Eral - February 4, 2006 11:30 PM (GMT)
The new improved Victorian Modern Cursive (brought in circa 1985, when I had to relearn how to write) is based on the natural curves and upstrokes/downstrokes people use in writing. You hold the pencil b/w thumb and second finger, while the first finger rests on top. The pencil is supposed to point over your shoulder. The idea is to encourage a comfortable stance as well, feet on the floor, not hunched over the page. Lefties hold their pencils same way as righties, but turn their page on a different angle. It works.
I am talking about really outrageously bad pen-grips that no decent teacher should have allowed like the pencil between second and third fingers with the thumb on top, which is the worst one I have seen. How anyone writes like that is beyond me.
NB:Nobody picks on lefties anymore.
I have one word for you - it's. Most confusing word in the language.
icelus - February 5, 2006 02:58 AM (GMT)
Bex - February 5, 2006 03:47 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Eral @ Feb 4 2006, 11:30 PM)|
| I have one word for you - it's. Most confusing word in the language. |
It's = it is
Its = possessive
I can't think of any other uses of the word. It's just one simple rule to remember.
I suppose you could have multiple things called it, in which case, the plural form "its" would be correct, but you never use an apostrophe to indicate a plural word, so that's not terribly confusing either.
Eral - February 5, 2006 05:05 AM (GMT)
I am making note that you never use an apostrophe to indicate a plural word - you may have given me the answer to this question. (So, - its' - should not be used? Great.) You clearly know a lot about grammar. But this does not mean it easy. Maybe you are exceptionally clever. I refuse to believe that the hesitation I feel over use of the words its and apostrophes means I am a shiftless slackarse who should work harder at my grammar. (Not that you are accusing me of that.)
English is a very complex language with exceptions to nearly all its rules, and is readily confusing. People say "we need to teach grammar more" - when the fact of the matter is English grammar is very difficult, and the most effective way of absorbing it is by reading and writing a lot. Highly literate=good grammar.
It seems a bit pointless to me to expect high level skills from people who don't have the knowledge base. Or even to expect the same level of skill from literate people. Brains don't work to rule.
Drew - February 5, 2006 05:28 AM (GMT)
Knowledge of grammar is not linked to intelligence. It's linked to whether or not you give a damn about it.
Bex - February 5, 2006 05:29 AM (GMT)
I don't know if I'm exceptionally clever, but I have a knack for deciphering systems. A language is a system, but so is a computer, and so is a biome, and so is a society. Systems are nifty.
Its' would indicate a plural possessive (something belonging to more than one "it"), but the word "their" is used instead. Yes, English is complicated, and I'm actually very forgiving of most blunders, even outright abuses (u c i m tolerant), especially on the 'net where I don't expect everyone to be a native speaker.
I do have a tendency to get frustrated when errors in grammar and spelling make it into text intended for mass distribution or for business. Lack of professionalism. That's it. I have very different standards for casual communications.
Eral - February 5, 2006 05:40 AM (GMT)
By "Brains don't work to rule" I wasn't meaning intelligence: I meant the things that make sense to us or that we find easy. Two people with the same literacy levels may have completely different areas of expertise/competency - right/left hemisphere dominance stuff and all.
An article/paper/text was published here picking out all the grammatical and spelling errors in "Eats shoots and leaves." I enjoyed that. It'd be nice if the printing industry was full of literate people, but I can tell you it's not. I think the printing industry is kept full of people who don't give two hoots for grammar, is so writers have someone to blame.
Bex - February 5, 2006 05:53 AM (GMT)
In books, I get far more annoyed with continuity errors. Things like, Bob's mother being called Alice on page 12, but on page 235, she's called Carol.
I realize this indicates little more than slight madness on my part. It can't be helped. I have my own version of a photographic memory, and that kind of discrepancy pitches me right out of a story.
Eral - February 5, 2006 11:59 AM (GMT)
I am a fan of 19th century writers. Anthony Trollope is particularly annoying in this respect because he wrote his books as serials - and would often forget minor character names, and suddenly change the course of action - clearly because he was bored/stymied with his original plot. Although I do like his "making it up as I go " style.
cliffette - February 6, 2006 07:41 AM (GMT)
Thanks Grim. :)
I think her next book is "Talk to the hand".
Andyr - February 6, 2006 12:39 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Bex @ Feb 5 2006, 05:53 AM)|
| In books, I get far more annoyed with continuity errors. Things like, Bob's mother being called Alice on page 12, but on page 235, she's called Carol. |
Yeah, that sort of thing is a bit irritating.