Title: 11/25/05 Godric's Hollow
Description: They say you can never go home again.
Belorin - November 25, 2005 08:14 PM (GMT)
|The Potter residence at Godric's Hollow.|
It was the final hiding place of Lily and James Potter prior to being murdered by Lord Voldemort on October 31, 1981. It was at this same time that Harry Potter was left with his lightning-bolt-shaped scar.
Some readers speculate that Godric's Hollow may have been the home of James Potter's family, and/or the home of long-dead Hogwarts founder Godric Gryffindor. There is also speculation that one of Lord Voldemort's Horcruxes will be at Godric's Hollow. At the end of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, Harry Potter says he will revisit the village and his parents' graves.
As for the town's exact location, there are speculations that Godric's Hollow is somewhere in Wales (thus making Harry Potter Welsh of origin). The reason for this speculation is the fact that, when carrying baby Harry from Godric's Hollow to Little Whinging in Surrey, Rubeus Hagrid flew over Bristol - which is at the border between England and Wales
What will Harry find, besides painful memories?
dtruslove - November 26, 2005 01:22 PM (GMT)
JK has confirmed that Godric's Hollow is in fact a town [The MuggleNet interview, I think], so one imagines he'll find something along the lines of Hogsmeade, except with bi-lingual signage :) Other than that, I'm not really sure.
jemlibris - November 27, 2005 06:58 AM (GMT)
A pile of rubble which might call forth Harry's inner archaeologist? What's there besides bricks and mortar?
Belorin - December 4, 2005 02:49 PM (GMT)
I was actually thinking more along the lines of visiting his parents graves, if they were buried there.
It might also be a place that LV has hidden one of his Horcruxes seeing as it has a Godric Gryffindor connotation and has a personal significance to him.
Harry may find things that his parents gave to friends there to keep for him.
jemlibris - December 5, 2005 10:51 AM (GMT)
Maybe people around who remember Harry's parents and/or those who kept some things of theirs. BTW, I wonder what happened to their wands?
Belorin - December 6, 2005 02:45 AM (GMT)
Well it's been alledged that Wormtail took LV's wand, maybe he took theirs as well?
Or they may have been picked up by Hagrid and he hid them and forgot?
Or the MoM's Magical Clean-up Squad confiscated them.
I doubt they're just lying around.
kimdudley311 - December 7, 2005 01:53 AM (GMT)
I don't know... wouldn't it be quite obvious a place for a horcrux?
Belorin - December 7, 2005 02:33 AM (GMT)
True, but then again Horcruxes aren't common knowledge.
Another question is did Harry inherit the cottage at Godric's Hollow?
jemlibris - December 9, 2005 11:08 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Belorin @ Dec 7 2005, 12:33 PM)|
| Another question is did Harry inherit the cottage at Godric's Hollow? |
That depends on whether Lily and James owned the house or were renting. Or maybe the land was sold, which accounts for some of the money Harry found in Gringotts.
I don't think there would be much left of the cottage, itself.
Belorin - December 11, 2005 10:54 AM (GMT)
I'm going to keep this topic open for another two weeks as there are some points I want to bring up, but this head cold won't let me concentrrate on them.
bangzoom - January 7, 2006 07:58 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Belorin @ Nov 25 2005, 12:14 PM)|
| Godric's Hollow|
What will Harry find, besides painful memories?
Well, I think mostly he will find some history. Being that the village is named Godric's Hollow it must have a magical history dating back to Godric Gryffindor. Given this history, it would probably be a safe bet that wizards and witches and squibs live there as well as muggles (since we know that Hogsmeade is the only all-wizard community outside of Diagon Ally). So, Harry may meet some very interesting characters who can give him some historical background information on Godric Gryffindor and the other Hogwart's founders as well as his parents and what they did during their time in residence there.
It's my understanding that the house was virtually destroyed by the blast of the backfired curse so I doubt that there could be much to be found at the site of where the house stood. 15 years have passed since that occured so either someone has rebuilt at that site or it has been left a vacant lot and is overgrown with weeds and trash. But wouldn't you think after 15 years that scavengers would have pretty well cleaned out anything of value? (Anything that wasn't already removed by Hagrid, Sirius, or the "magical clean-up squad" from the MoM).
If his parents graves are indeed there, it may be healing emotionally for Harry to visit them. But he will probably get the most out of his visit by speaking to those who knew his parents and provide him with a perspective of their everyday life. But who knows? Maybe someone lives there that could help him in his quest for the horcruxes? They're just waiting for the right person to ask the right questions.
ophie - January 10, 2006 09:57 PM (GMT)
I think it's debatable whether Godric's Hollow is a Potter family home. James, Lily, and Harry were in hiding... even with a Secret Keeper, would they go into hiding at a family location?
It will be interesting to see what remains of the cottage. In PS/SS, Hagrid says that the "house was almost destroyed." Then, in PoA, Hagrid says he pulled Harry out of the "ruins." The house was a ruin 15 years ago, but is it still a ruin? Was it torn down by the authorities?
- What caused the destruction at the cottage?
- Given that Harry and Voldemort's wand survived, what other things (wands, artifacts, etc) might have survived?
- Who took custody of James and Lily's bodies, if they survived the destruction? (If it was muggle authorities, then they probably would have been buried in the Godric's Hollow area. If it was wizarding authorities, they would have probably been taken to a family location.)
- Hagrid met Sirius at Godric's Hollow that night. What might Sirius have done or recovered? And where might he have stored anything he found? He told Harry in PoA that he has a Gringott's vault. Could any items be there? Would they have been automatically transferred to Harry's vault after Sirius's death?
Skivin'Ivy - January 20, 2006 05:04 AM (GMT)
I think I'll be a bit disappointed if the visit to Godric's Hollow turns out to be for reasons of finding artefacts from Harry's/Harry's parent's past. This would reveal such cruelty towards Harry's suffering during his years at the Dursley's and at Hogwarts - to have kept from him any belongings from his parents. Even now, it is hard to forgive that no-one has taken him to the site of his parent's graves yet.
I think it will be a visit for emotional reasons - one's that will reflect the maturity with which he dealt with Dumbledore's death, and the deep-felt understanding of the totality and finality of DD's loss. A time to acknowledge and understand the truth of the loss of his parents, and to fare them well. There will be no hesitation for Harry, should LV offer him again the chance to 'bring back his parents' - for he will have truly said goodbye to them this time.
I feel that the series has been leading up to this scene. He watched Cedric die, but was not there for Cedric's family's mourning or Cedric's funeral. He watched Sirius die, but there was no body to bury, and there were the moments of denial, with Nearly-Headless-Nick and with the Mirror. He watched Dumbledore die, mourned at his funeral, and was present for the magical entombment. But, at Godric's Hollow, he will finally be able to stand beside his parent's graves, and truly comprehend the end of his parents' lives, and what this loss has meant to him. And be strengthened by this closure.
ophie - March 6, 2006 08:13 PM (GMT)
|Result of F.A.Q. Poll|
What happens to a secret when the Secret-Keeper dies?
I was surprised that this question won, because it is not the one that I'd have voted for… but hey, if this is what you want to know, this is what you want to know!
When a Secret-Keeper dies, their secret dies with them, or, to put it another way, the status of their secret will remain as it was at the moment of their death. Everybody in whom they confided will continue to know the hidden information, but nobody else.
Just in case you have forgotten exactly how the Fidelius Charm works, it is
"an immensely complex spell involving the magical concealment of a secret inside a single, living soul. The information is hidden inside the chosen person, or Secret-Keeper, and is henceforth impossible to find -- unless, of course, the Secret-Keeper chooses to divulge it" (Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban)
In other words, a secret (eg, the location of a family in hiding, like the Potters) is enchanted so that it is protected by a single Keeper (in our example, Peter Pettigrew, a.k.a. Wormtail). Thenceforth nobody else – not even the subjects of the secret themselves – can divulge the secret. Even if one of the Potters had been captured, force fed Veritaserum or placed under the Imperius Curse, they would not have been able to give away the whereabouts of the other two. The only people who ever knew their precise location were those whom Wormtail had told directly, but none of them would have been able to pass on the information.
So... umm... is Harry even going to be able to visit Godric's Hollow? Wormtail is still the secret keeper and he hasn't told Harry anything about it. The way I see it, harry won't be able to go to GH unless he receives the secret (verbally or otherwise) from Wormtail. So, that means that it'll be almost impossible for the GH episode to occur at the beginning of the book. Maybe the climax will happen there instead.
Solattice - March 7, 2006 09:33 PM (GMT)
Actually, I was wondering about that very thing Ophie. But I got to thinking - who would've cast the fidelius charm in the first place? It would have had to be one of the Potters, right? That's my guess, at any rate. If that's the case, would the charm have been lifted at the moment of their death? That'd mean that the secret's no longer a secret, and anyone could find the place, right? Maybe a better question would've been what happens to the secret once the person who cast the fidelius charm dies?
Another thing I thought of though, Harry has to already know where Godric's Hollow is, doesn't he? I mean, he was one of the ones protected by the secret in the first place, even though he was just a baby. I think he'd be able to find it if he had even the slightest idea where the village is.
SiriusBlack - March 8, 2006 02:42 AM (GMT)
Shouldn't anyone be able to find Godric's Hollow? I thought it was just the Potters that were being protected, not GH. I know that no one could find Number 12 Grimmauld Place unless told its location by the secret keeper, but that's because the Fidelius Charm was actually put on the house. I don't remember the charm being put on GH, only on the Potters themselves. To me, that's a key difference. So I never thought it would be a problem for Harry, or anyone else for that matter, to find it. Or am I just forgetting a mention of the home's protection in the books?
ophie - March 10, 2006 09:59 PM (GMT)
Sorry, I'm referring to the home in Godric's Hollow. I don't know if Harry will be able (or allowed) to find the house. I suppose that he could be grandfathered-in as one of the protected occupants, but we really don't know for sure. But say, for instance, that Harry is able to go to the house... will anyone else be allowed to go with him? If he gets in simply because he was part of the original charm, then Ron & Hermione can't go with him. I'm just saying that I think there will be some sort of issue in visiting GH and the home/ruins. I don't think it will be as simple as Harry going, "Hey Remus... where did my parents live? I'd like to apparate on over."
Skivin'Ivy - March 11, 2006 10:47 PM (GMT)
I agree with many of the points made in this discussion about Godric's Hollow and Secret-Keeping. Maybe though, there's another way to come at this. The whole point of Secret-Keeping is the intention to protect. Peter knew that by telling LV the Secret, the location of the Potters, he was breaking that protection. I'm thinking that the spirit of the charm was shattered - and therefore the charm itself. Peter blabbed the Secret - he can be a Secret-Keeper no more.
Looking at it in this way, anyone will be able to visit Godric's Hollow.
athenamay3410 - March 12, 2006 05:55 PM (GMT)
The whole problem is the charm. I think, Ivy, you've made an excellent point. Peter told the one person who shouldn't know. That's it- secret's out.
But then, how does the charm know the difference between telling someone good and someone bad?
For instance, how would the charm tell the difference between DD telling Moody about Grimmauld Place, or DD telling Bellatrix Lestrange about Grimmauld?
The spirit may have been broken, but I think the charm still exists because it's the secret keeper who blabbed. In that respect- what if someone chose a really crappy secret keeper and he decided to tell EVERYONE? I mean, then it's down to the fault of the witch/wizard who chose that keeper.
But really, there seems to be no restraints keeping a secret keeper from blabbing, I guess is what I'm getting at. Restraints meaning, keeping them from telling the people that the secret is being kept from (ie- Lord Voldemort).
I really don't find this charm effective- it's completely based on trust. In a way, it's like a placebo but it has the cool effect of hiding people/places. The charm is only as good as the person keeping it.
So to get back on topic, in terms of Harry visiting- there are some problems.
If the Potters cast the spell- then anyone and everyone should be able to see the ruins. Correct? (Isn't that what JKR said on her website...) That would also explain how Harry was found the night his parents died. If this is the case, R&H should have no problem seeing the house.
If the spell was on the house and not cast by the Potters, then there are bigger problems. Then there's questions as to how Harry was found, and how anyone knew the house was destroyed.
Also, if Harry was never directly told the secret as a baby, then he may not technically "know" about the charm. He would need Peter them to blab to him.
Perhaps, if Peter does need to tell Harry the secret, then this will be the way that Peter can repay Harry. If there is some situation where Harry needs to go to GH in order to survive/defeat LV/bake cookies, then this may be the crucial thing Peter can do in order to repay the debt. Just a thought.
I think I'll pause here. I'm starting to ramble.
thestral83 - June 18, 2006 12:03 AM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Belorin @ Nov 25 2005, 08:14 PM)|
What will Harry find, besides painful memories?
HermioneRULEZ! - June 18, 2006 03:48 PM (GMT)
Ahhhhh...closure. Maybe. But I don't think they'd send him there without something interesting being discovered.
ophie - June 20, 2006 11:57 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (HermioneRULEZ! @ Jun 18 2006, 10:48 AM)|
| Ahhhhh...closure. Maybe. But I don't think they'd send him there without something interesting being discovered. |
Part of me just wants him to go there and see the graves and be comforted by the peace of his parents' resting place.
I think maybe he will do that and maybe the revelation will come from a Godric's Hollow local. That way, Harry's home and is parents' graves are sacred and special - a place for closure... but the town itself is a source of information.
chickybump - July 4, 2006 03:08 PM (GMT)
Closure is a major thing, but I'm thinking he may find out something that will let him understand who his parents were. (more in depth information) He still does not know much about them.
Painful memories might actually led to clues to though. It may trigger something important in his mind.