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Forum Rules Deathly Hallows

Spoiler period finished. Feel free to discuss all the books in this forum.

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 Unbreakable Vow - Is It Over?
ophie
Posted: Mar 23 2006, 12:44 PM


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Forgive me if this has been discussed already.

I am wondering if the Unbreakable Vow that Snape made to Narcissa is still in play. Is Snape still responsible for protecting Draco? If so... that could pit him against Voldemort if LV decides he wants to punish/kill Draco for his "failure."

So, do you think the Unbreakable Vow is still in effect? Is Snape still bound to Draco? If so... what might happen?


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athenamay3410
Posted: Mar 23 2006, 05:11 PM


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I'm not sure if this has been discussed earlier.

I think it's best maybe if we post the pact as well, so I will do so now:

QUOTE

"Will you, Severus, watch over my son Draco as he attempts to fulfill the Dark Lord's wishes?"
"I will"
"And will you, to the best of your ability, protect him from harm?"
"I will"
"And should it prove necessary... if it seems Draco will fail..will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?"
"I will"


That's the bare bones of it.

I think the first question is over. It specifically states the time period Snape needs to fulfill (the task). Same with the final question. Both are inclusive of the task.

However, the second one does not state "during his attempts to fulfill the task" or to that extent. It just asks if he will protect Draco from harm. Perhaps this one must continue since Narcissa didn't specify.

I think it's a stretch- but may be a possibility. Snape may now be bound to protect Draco from harm, but is under no obligation to help him or watch over him. He just has to act as a protector.

So perhaps, the vow will continue.


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"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" - Strawberry Fields Forever (The Beatles)

"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream" - Gift Shop (The Tragically Hip)

I said "Lily, oh Lily I'm so afraid I fear I am walking in the Veil of Darkness"
And she said "Child take what I say with a pinch of salt and protect yourself with fire"
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carolina
Posted: Apr 17 2006, 05:29 PM





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If Snape is still bound to Draco by that vow, I wonder how Draco will feel about it. He resented Snape's attempts to advise him or caution him while preparing for his task, taking great pride that Voldemort had chosen him, Draco, to carry out this mission.
However, he failed -- or at least hesitated -- to carry out the task and Snape had to do it for him. Voldemort will certainly know this. Doesn't it note somewhere in that scene that Draco looks scared or is crying or something while DD is promising the Order can protect him and his mother? And Draco was certainly crying in the lavatory, per Myrtle. So, Draco will almost certainly need protection from Voldemort. I read the vow of protection as still being binding, whether Draco or Snape are happy about it or not. I think that vow could be Snape's downfall -- if he is still a Death Eater, he will have to defy Voldemort to protect Draco; if he's OotP, he'll never be able to explain why he made that vow with "Cissy" which ultimately required him to kill DD. (Yes, there's also the possiblity that he had a similar vow with DD -- but, that's another thread . . . ).

No, I think this "unbreakable vow" is far from over.
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Firefly
Posted: Jul 3 2006, 10:25 AM


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This is a good catch.
I think the answer to the middle vow "protection" may have been encroached upon when Harry used Sectum Sempra on Draco.

Surely the scene in the bathroom where Snape dashes in from no where to sew Draco up points toward the protection vow.

Though, this beckons more questions, in more categories:

Where was Snape when Harry entered the bathroom?

Harry surely "HARMED" Draco with the slashing spell, how did that not show some sort of spell effect on Snape due to the unbreakable vow being violated?


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chickybump
Posted: Jul 4 2006, 03:13 PM


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The wording leads me to think that Snape is bound to help Draco with the Dark Lord's wishes. To me this means any wishes. (It didn't say other wise)

It seems that Snape will have to continue to protect Draco as well.


Nothing was very specific. To me there doesn't seem to be any cut off date to any of this. I think he is going to be bound to Draco.


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frida_wolf
Posted: Jul 16 2006, 04:37 AM


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QUOTE (Firefly @ Jul 3 2006, 05:25 AM)
This is a good catch.
I think the answer to the middle vow "protection" may have been encroached upon when Harry used Sectum Sempra on Draco.

Surely the scene in the bathroom where Snape dashes in from no where to sew Draco up points toward the protection vow.

Though, this beckons more questions, in more categories:

Where was Snape when Harry entered the bathroom?

Harry surely "HARMED" Draco with the slashing spell, how did that not show some sort of spell effect on Snape due to the unbreakable vow being violated?

I think the modifier "to the best of your abilities" covers Snape in the case of the Sectum Sempra. He did protect Draco to the best of his abilities - he could not have predicted that Harry would use such a spell on Draco. He would, of course, have healed Draco (or any other student in the same predicament) even if he hadn't taken the vow at all.

As to Ophie's question - I'm pretty sure that when Narcissa worded her vows, and when Snape accepted them, they were intended to apply directly to the task the Dark Lord has set Draco. I like to think that the intent is more binding than the exact phrase, and that the vow is now effectively fulfilled.


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ophie
Posted: Jul 16 2006, 01:50 PM


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I feel, for the most part, like it is over... but the vague wording bothers me. Narcissa doesn't specify "kill Dumbledore." She says "the Dark Lord's wishes" and "the deed." You know? I just tend to look for problems or alternatives whenever JKR is vague. We've all seen plenty of examples where she's had us going.


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athenamay3410
Posted: Jul 16 2006, 03:59 PM


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But at the same time- she would have had to reveal the ending on the book within the first 50 pages.

There had to be some form of mystery to continue throughout the book about Draco. It wouldn't be as fun if we knew the whole time that he was seeking to kill Dimbledore. It allows the reader to speculate.

So for this vow- I think we can forgive the vague wording because otherwise the ending is ruined before the book begins.


--------------------
"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see" - Strawberry Fields Forever (The Beatles)

"We're forced to bed, but we're free to dream" - Gift Shop (The Tragically Hip)

I said "Lily, oh Lily I'm so afraid I fear I am walking in the Veil of Darkness"
And she said "Child take what I say with a pinch of salt and protect yourself with fire"
Top
jemlibris
Posted: Jul 20 2006, 09:25 AM


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No the Unbreakable vow isn't over. There were three parts to this vow. These are:

1. 'Will you, Severus, watch over my son Draco as he attempts to fulfil the Dark Lord's wishes?'

2. 'And will you, to the best of your ability, protect him from harm?'

3. 'And should it prove necessary....if it seems Draco will fail....will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?'


(HPB, Brit ed. p. 41)

Notice that condition 3 has already been fulfilled on the Lightning Struck (Astronomy) tower.

But I think that Snape didn't do as good a job of #1 as one would expect. Partly this was due to Draco's attitude to Snape.

As for condition #2 it is somewhat loose-ended, isn't it? That particular condition could endure well into Book 7.


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ophie
Posted: Jul 20 2006, 11:21 AM


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That's exactly the problem Jem. Is it over once any of the 3 conditions is fulfilled? Or do all 3 conditions have to be fulfilled before it's over? #3 is fulfilled. You could even consider #1 fulfilled, but #2 is open-ended.

And yes athenamay, I know that it would have spoiled HBP for JKR to have had Narcissa say "kill Dumbledore." But how many times have we seen something obvious get turned around on us or something we thought we'd left behind us to come back to the forefront?

Ahem... "CONSTANT VIGILANCE!" winky.gif


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