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Deathly HallowsSpoiler period finished. Feel free to discuss all the books in this forum.
05/10/05 Hogwarts United, Be true to your School
| Belorin |
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Wizard Emeritus

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,853
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Joined: 11-November 04

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No, not a football (soccer) team, but the ongoing series of warnings and predictions that if the four houses don't unite Hogwarts is doomed The Sorting Hat has sung at least twice concerning this and there have been other signs. I know we've discussed this in other threads, but as the release date for HBP looms large on the horizon, I think it may be a major part of the storyline. Book 7 maybe too late.
the floor is open...
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" Robert A. Heinlein
"To be matter-of-fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy - and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Robert A. Heinlein
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| ophie |
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Seventh Year

Group: Members
Posts: 1,811
Member No.: 29
Joined: 15-November 04

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YES! This is my pet topic, as some of you may know. I was sorely disappointed when we lost the one from old tP. I've been thinking about this in the context of interpersonal relations and intergroup dynamics for a while, but especially since reading the Sorting Hat's latest song.
The Sorting Hat's song in OotP (with my emphasis):
| QUOTE | In times of old, when I was new, And Hogwarts barely started, The founders of our noble school Thought never to be parted. United by a common goal, They had the selfsame yearning To make the world's best magic school And pass along their learning. "Together we will build and teach" The four good friends decided. And never did they dream that they Might some day be divided. For were there such friends anywhere As Slytherin and Gryffindor? Unless it was the second pair Of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw, So how could it have gone so wrong? How could such friendships fail? Why, I was there, so I can tell The whole sad, sorry tale. Said Slytherin, "We'll teach just those Whose ancestry's purest." Said Ravenclaw, "We'll teach those whose Intelligence is surest" Said Gryffindor, "We'll teach all those With brave deeds to their name." Said Hufflepuff, "I'll teach the lot And treat them just the same" These differences caused little strife, When first they came to light. For each of the four founders had A house in which they might Take only those they wanted so. For instance, Slytherin Took only pure-blood wizards Of great cunning just like him. And only those of sharpest mind Were taught by Ravenclaw While the bravest and the boldest Went to daring Gryffindor. Good Hufflepuff, she took the rest. And taught them all she knew. Thus, the houses and their founders Maintained friendships firm and true. So Hogwarts worked in harmony, For several happy years. But then discord crept among us Feeding on all our faults and fears. The Houses that, like pillars four Had once held up our school Now turned upon each other and Divided, sought to rule. And for a while it seemed the school Must meet an early end. What with dueling and with fighting And the clash of friend on friend. And at last there came a morning When old Slytherin departed And though the fighting then died out, He left us quite down-hearted. And ever since the founders four Were wittled down to three Had the houses been united, As they once were meant to be. And now the sorting hat is here And you all know the score: I sort you into houses Because that is what I'm for. But this year I'll go further Listen closely to my song. Though condemned am I to split you, Still I worry that it's wrong. Though I must fulfill my duty And must quarter every year, Still I wonder whether sorting May not bring the end I fear. Oh know the perils, read the signs, The warning history shows For our Hogwarts is in danger, From external deadly foes. And we must unite inside her, Or we'll crumble from within. I have told you, I have warned you. Let the sorting now begin.
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When the school has been united, it has been safe. Slytherin promoted a dangerous policy of elitism that has divided the school for hundreds of years. While that policy has not been pressed, the school has managed to existed without unification. Now, Slytherin's Heir has resurrected that policy and is pressing its implemenation. This pressure has alredy begun to hurt the school. Unless the teachers and students can unite against a new common goal, the school will fall... without much help from Voldemort.
The essential question in this is "What goal, what cause could unite all four houses?" Is there anything that can cut across the group divisions and convince all of the houses to work together?
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BOO CREEPY FOOT DOCTOR!
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| Belorin |
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Wizard Emeritus

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,853
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Joined: 11-November 04

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Well, I'm pretty sure that one thing that WON'T be a common goal for uniting the houses is LV. Even if Draco and the Jr. DE's are in the minority, they are a very vocal and influential minority. However the dynamics could change, IF the DE's caught in the DoM are sent to Azkaban and remain there.
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" Robert A. Heinlein
"To be matter-of-fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy - and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Robert A. Heinlein
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| ophie |
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Seventh Year

Group: Members
Posts: 1,811
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Joined: 15-November 04

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I think the only way that Voldemort could be the uniting factor is if some of the DEs turn (the ones that are frightened of LV). Only Bellatrix seems to be in Voldemort's mold. She's the only one who seems to idolize him rather than follow because of fear. So what if Voldemort threatened them to the point that they fled to DD? Not very feasible I know... but we need to be thinking outside the box.
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BOO CREEPY FOOT DOCTOR!
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| Belorin |
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Wizard Emeritus

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,853
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I would be very reticent about accepting any DE's allegedly fleeing from LV if I were DD, Most of them have there own reasons for joining in the first place. Case in point; Wormtail, he actually had a chance to be free of LV at the end of PoA and still, look what he did. Especially now that LV is recruiting, any sign of weakness and suddenly there is a new opening in the DE ranks. If you want to look outside the box, what if the MoM decides to investigate the families of associates of the DE's, ones that don't necessarily prescribe to the cleansing of the wizarding bloodlines. That might start a feeling of ill-will towards the children of the DE's and lessen their hold the leadership of Slytherin.
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" Robert A. Heinlein
"To be matter-of-fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy - and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Robert A. Heinlein
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| ophie |
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Seventh Year

Group: Members
Posts: 1,811
Member No.: 29
Joined: 15-November 04

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Oh, I'm of the opinion that the DE kids will be ostracized from Slytherin and that's how the houses will unite. They won't be complete... but sacrifices must be made...
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BOO CREEPY FOOT DOCTOR!
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| mercurystar |
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Seventh Year

Group: Astronomy Professor
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Joined: 12-November 04

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I seem to remember discussing earlier that perhaps the DA would be the uniting factor. Of course, that would mean there would have to be some Slytherin members, but I think after what happened at the ministry, perhaps some Slytherins would indeed want to separate themselves from the DE children, like Ophie said.
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"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." --Carl Sagan
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| Belorin |
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Wizard Emeritus

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,853
Member No.: 15
Joined: 11-November 04

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I think that's very possible. I was going thru the old threads in Two Feet of Parchment and ran across a couple of threads that tie into this discussion, the old House Unity and Dumbledore's Army.
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"Never underestimate the power of human stupidity" Robert A. Heinlein
"To be matter-of-fact about the world is to blunder into fantasy - and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." Robert A. Heinlein
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| jemlibris |
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Bibliomancer

Group: Hogwarts Librarian
Posts: 2,751
Member No.: 19
Joined: 13-November 04

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| QUOTE (ophie @ May 11 2005, 11:29 AM) | | I think the only way that Voldemort could be the uniting factor is if some of the DEs turn (the ones that are frightened of LV). Only Bellatrix seems to be in Voldemort's mold. She's the only one who seems to idolize him rather than follow because of fear. So what if Voldemort threatened them to the point that they fled to DD? Not very feasible I know... but we need to be thinking outside the box. |
I don't think the Azkaban escapees would be doing anything like that. It would really be unconvincing if Lucius Malfoy and those who walked free the first time, tried turning against LV, pleading imperius curse got their homework.
The best way to unite the school is for even Slytherins to recognise Lucius Malfoy and cohorts as the scumbag he is, and to reject his ideas. It might be a very painful year for Draco. But then, maybe not....
So far, we know 4 students in Slytherin whose fathers were DE's. How many students in Slytherin do we know of who haven't got parents in the DE's?
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| kathy |
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Second Year

Group: Members
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Joined: 22-November 04

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Although I am sure that there are some, we can't know for sure who doesn't have parents in the DE's because there are bound to be DE's that we don't know the names of....
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